Welcome And Blue Chair Podcast

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome and thanks for joining us on this episode of the Midweek Podcast, brought to you by a Fresh Wind Church. Each week, our team brings you new content to help you take steps towards Jesus and discover more in Christ. Today's episode is hosted by Pastor Ryan.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Well, hey, welcome back to the Midweek Podcast. Pastor Ryan joined this week with Pastor Jared. Pastor Jared is our youth pastor here, had the opportunity to speak this past weekend. And man, I thought you did a great job.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

So thanks for being on the podcast today. Thank you. Thanks for having me. If uh you probably remember my voice, I am also the host of the Blue Chair Podcast. Blue Chair Podcast, yeah. When does that come out? I think we're supposed to have an episode coming out this Saturday. First Saturday every month, right? Second Saturday. Second Saturday every month. Or the Saturday that we remember that it's supposed to have been out the last Saturday, and then we would do it the next one. It's hit or miss, honestly. It's quite the schedule. This summer has been a little hectic. There's been one or two times where me and Charles are like, wait a minute, it's the second Saturday. And we text each other at the same time. We're like, we messed up. All right, third Saturday it is. But we eventually get them out.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Love the idea of the blue chair podcast. That's an opportunity. So Tim and I usually uh get on the midweek podcast and kind of break down the sermon from the previous Sunday. The blue chair podcast kind of recaps the last month worth of uh sermons, and it's kind of the a perspective from the people who sit in the blue chairs, the you know, the just normal person coming to church. Uh, what are the what do you guys think about this sermon? How do you work through it, apply it to your life? And so that was uh an idea I think I pitched to you. Yeah, that's been over a year, I think we've been doing that now.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah, we're 12 or 13 episodes in. Um, and we have it's us, me and Charles every week or every month, and then we try to get someone from the church to come on as well. And uh it's not always every time, but usually if it's just me and Charles, I didn't preach that series. And so it's still just from hey, we're listening to you, we're not sitting with you as you are prepping it. We're not even trying to get your meaning from it. We're just taking it how it's hitting us, and what are we walking away um thinking and feeling? Like when we're driving home, what is the Lord telling us? And it is it's a fun thing to sit there and go through because usually, like you hear it, you go home for the day, you might think about it for a day or two, and then it's hard to just get the big picture sometimes. And but when we do this, we have to sit there and it kind of forces us to look at where this series has led us as Christians being fed into by our preachers, and it's just good stuff. I enjoy doing it, I enjoy hearing the perspective and seeing the people jump out of nowhere. Like Ethan, the yeah, we had him in the last time, he was just dropping some bangers with the doctrine.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

I'm like, I'm loving it, dude. He's got some good stuff, man. His uh Easter Invite video, I was watching that, and Tim and I, I was showing him like, watch this video. Ethan's in there talking, and Tim and I start crying, man. We're like, man, this is some good stuff. Yeah. So yeah, it's uh it's a fun podcast, it's a unique take. Um, and I love that idea. You know, you're getting to hear from from someone other than the pastors of how real people are applying this stuff. And you know, you weren't in the study sessions, like you said, you know, you pastor just comes, delivers the message, and then okay, well, what am I supposed to do with that? And so um that's the blue chair podcast. So if you haven't listened to those ones, would encourage you uh each month, second Saturday. I'm gonna have to stay till it's gonna be paying attention now. Second Saturday. Uh, make sure you uh you jump in, listen to that one, and uh, like I said, they recapped kind of the past month worth, which is usually about a sermon series um this summer. You know, it's not quite like that. We got 17 weeks of this.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Um I should have gone with that. We were waiting until this series was over. That's what I should have said, but no, I wouldn't random myself out.

John 6 Marathon Setup

SPEAKER_03 4:02

All right. Well, this Sunday you got to got to preach the I think it was part eight. So we're almost two months in, I guess, now, uh, to our our John series, Signs and Glory. And man, I I gave you quite the the marathon to get through and quite the chapter. Um, how many how many verses? Is it 70 something verses?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

71.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

71 verses in John chapter six. And I was like, here you go, you got 35 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

I think I went 50 or something.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

You went long. Uh I told Tim afterwards, I said, uh, listen, you and I should have a pretty long leash now because I think Pastor Jared just broke the the record. I have never gone over, but when I do, I do.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

You did it. I commit it. Full send on that. I actually had someone before I went up there. She said, All right, you're preaching. I take notes. So slow down. I'm like, I can try, but like, I've got 71 verses today. I can't go that far over. She's like, I don't care if you go over.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Just slow down.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Just slow down. So I took that to heart. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Perfect. Um, I'm sure everyone else was like, golly, we just missed lunch. Um and also the notes are online uh for the most part, too. So if you do miss anything, uh you can you can go there.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

I sometimes take special requests Sunday morning. So if you catch me on the right Sunday and I happen to be preaching, I'm willing to do it, maybe, possibly. This time I was. No, it was complete accident.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Well, you had a ton of good content.

The Vending Machine Faith Trap

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Um, and some of those illustrations you shared, uh I thought really hit home with people. The vending machine, you know, illustration I thought was vivid. You know, so many of us we we come to God that way, and you know, I want to put in a couple bucks, I'm gonna hit these couple buttons, and out should come whatever. And then when, oh, you you want commitment? I gotta, I gotta stay here for a little while before this thing gets delivered.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

I you know, like try treating any other relationship like that.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

If you did the bare minimum with your wife, and then you go and want something from her, she's gonna look at you like you're crazy. She's gonna say, get away from me, dude. Like what? You bought me flowers once this week and you want me to do whatever you want, whatever this is, and it's just not going to, it's never gonna land well. If you barely talk to a friend and then you're saying, Hey, I'm moving, they're not showing up to help you.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

And but we do the same thing with God. We treat Jesus like a vending machine. We show up on Sunday, we pay our dues, and then we want the candy bar. And yeah, maybe sometimes we get blessed and we get a candy bar, but it's not for the candy bar we're doing it. It's for the opportunity to know Christ.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

He's a He's a good father, right? Uh Scripture says every good and perfect gift comes down from him, and he wants to to bless us, he wants to do good things. Uh he says, Man, you earthly fathers, if your son asked for a piece of bread, you wouldn't give him a stone, you know. And so God wants to to give you good things, but man, so much of us uh we come to to God in that transactional nature. Um God, I I'll do this and I'll show up and put it put in my dues and give my time here, but you better do this, this, this, this. And when that doesn't happen, now we're upset. And and I thought that was I thought that was vivid, man. You could picture it, and I think all of us have been at that part or place in our relationship with God at some point. Some of us might still be there, but we've all been there, we've all approached God that way. Yep. I don't think he's shocked by it, you know. He's like, oh, here we go. Again, back to the vending machine. Um so you return. We've all been there. And I and I thought, man, that man, that was convicting. Um, and then you you really kind of laid out the something that I think is is pretty timely, just because it's it's kind of one of those buzzwords kind of in our culture right now, deconstruction.

Deconstruction And The Drop-Off Stats

SPEAKER_03 8:07

I think it's something that a lot of people have heard, especially if you're online. You've this is something that's gone around people deconstructing from their faith or from their their religion, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

And it leads from this vending machine mentality. When you follow God for what he gives you, and then he calls you, just like in John 6, they wanted bread. All right, you can have bread. All right, we want more. No, I need you to do something. Well, wait a minute. And that's where we get these statistics where, like, it was a 2024 life waste uh research study. By age 30, 65% said they stopped attending church regularly. 34 34% said they had stopped identifying as Christian altogether, and 17% of those of those uh asked said they would describe themselves as deconstructing their faith, actively examining and dismantling beliefs that they had been taught. When you're not in love with God and then he calls you to do something, you get those statistics.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

As a pastor of a local church, those are rough, man. Um you know, you're the the youth pastor here and raising up, helping to raise up um and disciple our next generation. These are scary, man. Terrifying. You know, you can put all this time and effort into teaching our students and and just as as a in general, our church. I mean, this is by age 30, so this is beyond youth ministry. And man, in a lot of areas, it's like are we failing these people? Are we falling short? It's uh that's something I've man, I've wrestled with. You know, I before you were the youth pastor, I was the youth pastor, and so I've gone through a lot of those same things and and questions that I'm sure you go through now. Um back then, you know, it was like if you didn't reach kids by the time they were 18, um, many of them would walk away. Then it moved down to like 16. I think now that number's close to like 13.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

It's in Victoria's hands, basically, is what we're saying.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Yeah, if you don't reach them by the time they're 12, 13 years old, a lot of them aren't coming back.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Oh, yeah. And it's and it's incredibly hard to get them back once they start wandering. Because frankly, as a 13-year-old, life's fun. There's there is no what requirements are there, especially now. Like we get we have we allow kids to have more fun now than I think we ever did. I remember my mom, my mom used to just like lock us outside and say, go play. We didn't have a screen, like we have we always have something keeping us entertained, and then we say, All right, so you just did your week of school. Now go listen to Pastor Jared preach for 15, 45 minutes, whichever day it is. It depends on the day. And like, yeah, we play a game, we give them pizza, it's all fun and games, but you can go. Have you played PlayStation recently? I have one, it's a great time. I'll get lost for hours. And so it's so important that's where the the uh blue chair podcast played. Yeah, it did. It's it's Battlefield 6's fault, honestly. It's it is a it falls on all of our shoulders. Um, but I think there is something to

Helping Students Own Their Faith

SPEAKER_01 11:23

say about parents getting back to where we're telling our kids, hey, we're going to church because it's important, and giving them that opportunity to be pressed with questions and then take ownership of their faith. Watching Olivia this week come back and seeing what she's done and hearing from her and seeing how she took ownership of faith, that's not her parents' church anymore. It's her church, and should her parents attend too.

unknown 11:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

And that's what we want at freshman youth. And it's so exciting to see that. And those are the kids, or the students rather, that are going to find a church by their college, that are gonna join the study group, that are gonna do those things, and so they're not one of these statistics.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

It's so important uh to stay connected and you know, this deconstruction idea, whatever. Um we've seen too many of our family, too many of our friends, people that we love and care about, people who've you know walk through the doors of our churches, go through this, and maybe they don't wouldn't say, you know, I've deconstructed, but they they've walked away for one reason or or another. Oh, we'll get to the reasons. We can go over the reasons. Well, and that's I I guess that's where I'm grabbing it. Like whether whether you use the word or not, you know, we all kind of have the same list of excuses. It's not new either. And and that you brought that up in the sermon. I thought that was that was so important because we act like these are new things, new ideas, and everybody's shocked when these ideas come out and like, oh my gosh, did you see this YouTube video? Oh, did you watch that viral video? Did you see what this guy wrote online? And we act like these are brand new ideas. And this is something we've hammered on the midweek podcast multiple times. Man, we this faith that we have, it's ancient, man. Like its roots go deep. And people have argued and beat this thing up for the past 2,000 years. I mean, what do you think about the Trinity? Um, people got in fights over that stuff. Is Jesus God? Again, people fought for those things. St. Nicholas punched somebody in the face for it. So we we have wrestled these ideas down, it's not new. And so when people say, Well, have you thought of this? You know, Solomon said it this way there's nothing new under the sun. That's how Solomon said it. And so there's very little we're gonna throw at scripture that the past 2,000 years of church history hasn't already covered. And so we act like it's a new idea because it's the new shiny thing. But man, you give that thing sometimes it's only, you know, a month, but even five, 10, 20, 30 years, those things get beat back down, and then something else comes up because we've just we've already fought through this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

And you hit the nail

Nothing New Under The Sun

SPEAKER_01 14:10

on the head there, and it's why I finished part of my sermon with one of the many parts of the sermon with when you're deconstructing stay. Because there's nothing new about it than it being new and flashy and shiny. Yeah, Satan is cunning, he is good at what he does. Let's like credit where it's due. He can play the game better than any of us can. He can package something up as something new, fancy. You've got this new reason to be liberated, you've got this new offense, they found new evidence that this is fake, this, that, and the other. Whatever you want to say. But it's not new. The packaging is different. It's being it's the same thing being sold. I saw a uh picture one time of them taking the sticker off a Ryobi uh pressure washer, and underneath the sticker was another sticker that was like 500 less PSI. Like it was the same thing of equipment. They smacked a new sticker on it and sold it for twice as much, and that's what Satan does to us. And so many of us fall into it. And what you need is people who think a little bit different than you. And to say, hey, this sounds awfully like something I wrestled with a few years ago. And then have lunch and work it out and see the similarities and see that, hey, what I'm really wrestling with is not I want to, it's that scripture's wrong for this. I have too much pride to submit to God in this area.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

That was a that was a good challenge you you issued to everybody because it's so important. We want to be that kind of church, that kind of place. I know you want to be that kind of youth ministry, that when people have questions, they

Stay And Wrestle With Questions

SPEAKER_03 15:49

can come and wrestle with them here.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

It's one of the mantras Pastor Tim has had for really probably since he started the church or maybe before, but I know in the past 17 years he's championed questions lead to intimacy. We should not be afraid to take these things to God. And sometimes we we have these questions, doubts, whatever you want to call them, and we're afraid to bring that to the Lord, or even more than that, we're afraid to bring it to the church, the people that we you know do life with or to our life group. Because what would these people think if they knew I was wrestling with this? They think I wasn't saved anymore, that I'm not a good Christian. And so sometimes it's easier just to to leave and walk away to deconstruct because now there's no expectations, nobody's gonna, you know, whatever. I'm just I'll just slip out the side door and and I won't come back for a while. Nobody's probably gonna notice.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Ryan will. I'm keeping track. He said all the all the license plates every in the parking lot, just knows who they're too.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

We're not that creepy, but I do keep try to keep some track of just people I haven't seen in a while. But as we grow, that gets harder and harder. So we need you as a church to help help be our eyes. If you see someone not here, call us. Call them. Yeah, call them. Call them and just say, hey, I've missed you. Because we we do, we want this to be a a safe place for people to come and to wrestle with those things. And when question comes up or life gets hard or or whatever, um, hey, that person at church hurt me. We want to we want to be the spot where you can come and and you can find reconciliation on those things.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Oh yeah. Um, peace, forgiveness, you know. I call, I at least to tell the youth, it is doubt and questions are a ladder. And with every like you're in the middle of the ladder in life, and that doubt can lead you down and it can lead you away from God, or that that could be another rung that gets you a little bit higher. It leads to intimacy, kind of like Tim said. But you have to make that choice. You can bring it up or you can bring it down, wherever you're gonna go, you have you're still on the ladder, right? It's not going anywhere. You decide where that question leads you. And it's it's so important to, like you said, stay here.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Stay. Don't don't walk away with that, man. Wrestle with it here. And we got people here that want to walk through those things with you. You know what if you're just trying to be argumentative about it, listen, there's church on every corner. Um, but if you're genuine and say, Man, I I'm really struggling here, we we want to walk through that with you.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

And Ryan says that, but I have seen him read a book of an email to talk it out with people. So he might seem like crass and like quick, like, oh, he's just kicking us out because it was crazy. Like, no, he's vested. And I can personally when I would have been like, look, dude, I'm a thinker borderline and argumentative at this point. Ryan is invested and he's responding and he's looking at the points and he's looking up the scripture. I'm like, dude, relax. It's not that big of a he's invested. We want this more than anything. And so for us to be like, all right, you're argumentative, you truly gotta be just looking for a fight. But it is it's what we're here for. That's right. We're trying to equip.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Well, Tim calls us a you know, a tribe, a family of families. And here's the thing about being in a family sometimes it's rough, sometimes it's I don't like that person. That person ticked me off, or you know, they they left their socks and dirty underwear on the floor, or they, you know, peed on the toilet seat or whatever. You know, there's just it's being in the family, and we're not gonna like it all. We want you to stay and let's let's wrestle through those things because at the end of the day, man, this is a place that loves God primarily and loves you,

Major On Majors Not Minors

SPEAKER_03 19:45

and we want to help you discover more in Christ. So that challenge that I thought you issued right at the end of the message is like hey, deconstruct here, and and there's people around to help help you rebuild those walls, man. Um no, the problem was you had the brick in the wrong spot. That one goes over here, and oh man, I've wrestled with that. That's this is how I've built that thing back up in my life. If you if you pull away, where else are you gonna get that? You're gonna go to the internet, and Lord only knows what you can find there.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

And here's another thing, and I I champion this about our church every single time I talk about it with people. Tim and Ryan brought it to me when I first started, and it I think it's the best saying on the planet major on the major, minor on the minors. Look, we're gonna we're gonna disagree on something. This week we were talking, and you explained what you think about something, and then you said I said, How does Tim think see it? And he says, I don't know if he sees it that way, but he has the right to be wrong, and then giggled. Like that that's how we approach these things. Like, if we don't fully agree on something, so what?

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Like it's not, it's not that big of a deal. It's it's we want to be right, we want to stay true to scripture, we want to do all of that, but you have to understand that people are gonna see things slightly different, and we do. And if it comes to a point where it's like, all right, we think you're just wrong, then we move on. Like if we're honestly like, look, I think you're pulling this out of left field, we we will stand here, we'll let you know, and then you come next week and sit in service and say hi and do all the same things, right? Right. We're not gonna like scowl at you or anything like that, or it's just we get all these fears that just shouldn't be there. Yep, and we want to just reassure you that we don't want you to leave.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

No, this should be the spot where you ask those questions and and you're you'll you'll find truth here, you know. And I'm not saying Tim or myself or Jared, you know, we got the the corner market on truth, you know. Other than we have God's word and it is truth. His Holy Spirit's gonna lead us into all truth. And so you need to stay plugged in to the to the place that's gonna keep pushing you back to the word of God. Not what we say or think about something, who cares what I think about something? I tell people. That's all the time. Well, what do you think about, and then you know, insert hot cultural topic here? Well, who cares? God has already decided on that thing. So, what I think about it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant. My job is to pick up my cross daily, die to myself, and submit and follow Christ. And that I think is where these people, at least in John chapter six, started to fall off a little bit, is because it became more than the vending machine. There's there's expectation here, there's there's responsibility here, there's surrender here. And I don't know if I'm ready for all that.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

And in all honesty, it's the same about five reasons that deconstructors leave. And I meant to say when you pointed out that it's not new, it's good that it's not new. It is fantastic that it's not new because you're not the first one to go through it. You're not out on an island.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

That's important.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

We have data, we've had, we've had the conversations, we've looked at these things, and we've we have five solid reasons

Five Reasons People Walk Away

SPEAKER_01 23:07

as to why deconstructors leave in general. And the first one being they wanted Jesus' provision, but they didn't want him. And an example, right, is the person who deconstructs because they wanted Christianity to fix their life and it didn't. And it's an offense. They wanted to see this person get healed, they wanted to see these bills get paid, they wanted a church to support them in this way. Yes, the church can, the church has made mistakes because we're people, right? We've dropped the ball as humans. But that's not why the church is here. The church is here is to honor God, to praise him, and to lead others to Christ. And our church, our mission is to help others discover more in Christ.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

That is above everything else. And so sometimes when our when the provision doesn't come the way we think it should, man, we get we get some offense.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

And that that's true, equally true of whether the church didn't provide what you wanted, or you felt like God didn't provide what you wanted. True. When those people came to Jesus, he said, Man, you're not looking for me uh because you want me. You you guys saw the signs. You you had the loaves, you you weren't hungry for a couple hours. Now you're just here looking for more. You know, you want the provision that I was giving, but you're not here because you want me. And man, we can get there that Lord, I'm I'm praying because I need this. And here's the thing: He wants you to bring those things to him. But if they are in place of a relationship with him, it's not gonna happen. Scripture says you have not because you ask not, but it also says you don't have because you ask amiss or your motives are wrong. You want this thing just because you want to, you know, keep up with your neighbors. Um, you you want to to look good around your your friends or or whatever it is. You already trying to work something out of you.

unknown 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Or that's a big one. If you, and I was talking to a student about it yesterday, they're like, I want to do this thing. And I said, All right, then you need to show God that you are taking care of the little. And so find what you're gonna take care of for the youth ministry. Pick that thing out, we'll help you get set up, we'll we'll help you, we'll guide you, we'll lead you still, but show that you can take ownership over something and start doing that and see what else God will give you.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

That's that's a huge lesson to to be teaching to to our students, but to anyone, man. Because we do, we want, we want the five or the ten talents, and God's like, how about how you doing with the one that I gave you? Well, I went and I buried it in the field. It's safe. That's not gonna work. And so being a faithful steward of the things God's already given you, yeah, that's that's important. And so, yeah, we've been in church this long, you've seen people who you know deconstruct or walk away because the provision wasn't what they thought. I thought if I showed up and I did this and I read that and I checked these boxes, I was gonna get this. And I didn't get that, or I didn't get it the way that I wanted it or in the amount that I wanted it. They think the machine ate their money.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Ouch! The machine didn't eat your money, the the machine owns the money, and we just get what he gives us, and we gotta be happy

Movement Without Obedience

SPEAKER_01 26:28

with it because we've got the we've got the best prize, we've got eternity with him. And we don't know really what that looks like sometimes. Even I sometimes I'm like, what is heaven going to exactly be like? Like, because sometimes I'm even like the things on earth, my family, these relationships, like these are all good things, and I enjoy them. Will I have a sense of that in heaven? And there's like debate on it, I've seen different things, and I should probably study it more because it's a question that's been on my mind lately. We don't know exactly what it looks like other than perfection.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

You know, I'm um making this up on the fly here. Oh, we're going. So test this against scripture. Uh here, here's the thing, man. We want, right, whatever's on row K5. That's what we want. You own the whole vending machine. You got Jesus, man. Like, if the thing doesn't fall out and you don't get whatever K5 was, you got Christ, and it's enough. Like, you got the whole thing. He's not holding back from you. And maybe it's I don't, you don't need this thing in that season or this thing right now, it would, it would destroy you. But man, at the end of the you get Christ, and that's enough. He's sufficient. I I thought the song that we sang at the end of service Sunday was an incredible ending uh to the message. I think I cried through both times. I both services. I'm like, I know what's coming. My wife's voice will do that, just so you know. It just brings tears to her eyes. It's so good. I think both times it happened when Ty started singing, but your wife did sound great. Alison, I want I'm gonna make her listen to this because she can hear that. No, the whole team sounded good on Sunday. And the song there right at the end was amazing. If the highest place I reach is at your feet, I've done it all. If if one word is the only thing you've sp you speak, I've heard it all. I'm not waiting on anything else. You'll you are the provision. You're enough. And if we would get to that place and realize we he's the vending machine, we got it all. We got everything inside because we have him, and that's enough, man. It would change our life. It would.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

It would. The second reason why deconstructors leave that is studies show, statistics, we got them all, is they wanted a movement to join, and they didn't want a Lord to obey. We saw all that then when they said, Hey, we're gonna make you king. You're gonna get rid of the Romans, we are gonna, it's gonna be set up, it's gonna be perfect. And we see it now when people come to the church with this um this ideology that that it's going to be the like we're gonna win. We want to join this movement because this is, and honestly, like sometimes I do think it's it's exasperated more than it is, but a great example of it is like the Christian nationalist example. Like when you see those that like not just I like America and I like Christ too, but like the ones that are genuinely like way crazy, and there are some that go way too far with some things, and you're like, what is happening here? And it's those things where it's like that's why I'm here, but then when it doesn't fit what you want to happen, and it can go the other way too. Christian National is an example, you can flip the flip the side of the aisle, right? It's uh you you want Christ to lead in this movement rather than just follow Christ with what he says. Yeah, Christ isn't the head of whatever movement and whatever injustice or whatever thing is happening right now, Christ is the head of the world.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

I remember, oh man, it's probably 10, 15 years ago, there was this big thing came out. You know, what do young people want in in a job and a career and all, and it's they they want to be part of something bigger than themselves. And so all these companies started coming out with all these other things that we have to be a part of so that people will come and join our organization because it's more than a job. We're part of this thing, right? Everyone was looking for a movement. I want a movement to join so I can feel like I'm making a difference in the world. Problem is you go and you get that job and your boss sucks, and you're like, Well, I think that committed to the movement. I wouldn't, I wouldn't hear for all that. And we do the same thing, right? We we look at the church and you know, man, it's the greatest force of good on the planet. The church has been responsible for building hospitals and universities and schools all across the world, orphanages and uh adoption agencies, crisis pregnancy centers, food uh not food shelters, um, distribution, uh, and then homeless shelters. We just hoard all the food. We hoard it all. You know, the church. I mean, what other organization has had the impact that the church has had? There's zero. And so we come and like, well, man, here's a movement I can get behind. Or we look at, you know, some particular church and they're growing, they're doing things in the community. Man, I want to go and I want to be a part of that. And all that's good right up until Sister Sally says something that offends you. And now you're like, well, I ain't that committed to it. You know, this is how they're gonna treat me. All right, man, I showed up and I did this, and and the pastor didn't even thank me. He didn't even look at me today. Or when he saw me, he turned and walked the other way. Listen, the pastor's got 4,000 things on his mind. He's not trying to avoid you.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Um, or is that sermon that you just didn't want to hear? Or the sermon that frankly, the pastor fumbled a little bit. He he worded something a little wrong. It something came out different than what he intended to. And it's like we get so wrapped up into this offense that, like, well, I'm not standing with that. Like, if that's it, like it is what it is. People, people are broken. That's part of it. We we want this movement, we want to, we want to get behind this until it gets a little hard. And the Lord says, just still go, obey, do what you're supposed to do, move past this. If at all possible, make peace with everyone. And you don't want the obedience.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Yeah, yeah, that's tough.

Comfort Teaching And Church Hopping

SPEAKER_03 32:52

What's number three?

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yeah, they wanted teaching they could pat themselves on the back for, and they didn't want to confess they were doing, they were dying without the bread. They wanted cushy, they wanted soft, they wanted the God's and both songs that both things true. God really loves us. We sang that on Sunday. We also sang if the highest place I get is at your feet, then I've got it all. I probably messed up those lyrics up. But you get we get so wrapped up in the God really loves us, and I want this soft and happy and like, dude, I did it. Like they want the John 6 up to verse 59, where it's saying, like, you're gonna eat my body, like you're gonna get the like it's 2020 now, 2026 now. It's 2020, 2026 now. We we've gone uh enough people have heard this and studied that it's not the crazy teaching that it was there. So we hear that and we think the disciples are crazy. Because we understand it. We get, oh, this is what the communion is, all of this stuff. But when it gets hard, when it says, hey, Jesus said you the you 12 are following me, but there's still a devil among you, and it's challenging us to make sure that we're still following Christ, that we're following Christ for the right reasons. Ooh, that's that's getting difficult. I don't know if I want to hang around for that one. It's not it's not cushy, it's not comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

No, and it feeds into the whole kind of consumerism mentality that we have in the American church, where I want to go to a spot where I'm comfortable and the pastor's, you know, funny, but not too funny, and the worship's good and the lighting's good, and the volume's good. We don't talk about hell, you know, anything that's hard, we don't really talk about those things. And it forces this kind of church shopper hopper sort of thing where, man, as soon as I don't like what this guy says or how they do something over here, well, I'll just go down here and I'll go to this church, and then you're at that church for a while until they say something that offends you or whatever, and they do something you don't like, and then you go to the next one. And it is real, you know, when the new church was was taken off, there was one, you know, there was the church in Jerusalem that you didn't like it. It's like, okay, well, I guess I gotta walk 40 miles to go to the next one.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

You sat next to that old lady that offended you that week, and you had that was the only place to go.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

Yeah, you had to work these things out, there wasn't an alternative, and now we just hop around as soon as it doesn't tickle our ears anymore. You know, I'll go find a pastor who tells me what I want to hear. And here's the thing, they're out there. People will do it for the clicks or the views or whatever. When Joey and I were on vacation, um when was that back in April? I think it was.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

I go on vacation all the time. That's like every other week, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Buddy, I wish. We were on vacation and we we wanted to find a church to go to because it's not very often we get to just go and sit in church, right? Yeah, we we help pastor one, so we're constantly involved doing something. So we're like, man, let's find a church while we're on vacation. We'll just go. So I looked up some churches, I can't even remember what city it was in down in Florida, but did some reviews, found some churches that you know had some pretty good reviews. I'm just like everybody else. If I'm looking for a church, I'm gonna look at the reviews. You know, I don't I don't want to go to a place that's gonna punch me when I walk in the door. And so found some a church with good reviews. It was a pretty big church. I think they had four, five, six services a Sunday, something like that. Exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

I'm I had two, and I'm ready for a nap.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Just wait, buddy. We're helping people discover more in Christ. Um, but we showed up, and so this is a church that's gotta see every weekend thousands of people through their doors. And I sat down, not knowing what to expect. I know nothing about this church, this pastor, anything. Um, I checked their statement of beliefs, that was it. And it was pretty much what would be on, you know, you could put it on our website and it'd be fine. So I I show up and Pastor gets on stage and starts preaching. And I mean, he was an older guy. Um definitely, I don't think, was he wasn't the most dynamic speaker I've ever heard. But I mean, he was good. He was, you know, had some relational elements, so kept you engaged for the most part. But what shocked me and impressed me was here's a guy who's leading this church with, again, have to has to be thousands of people to be able to afford their campus and do all these services, everything they're doing. And this guy brought up some really tough cultural topics. And he he approached them with grace, like it wasn't like he was rude, but man, he stuck to the truth of scripture on every single point. And and I told Joey and I still need to send this guy an email because I was like, I want to email this pastor just as another pastor to say, thank you for holding the line, man. Thanks for being faithful here because it's so easy, especially in a church like that that's growing, you know, has all these people. I don't want to offend anybody, you know, we got to pay the bills, and I can't imagine what it is. I know what our heating and cooling bill is, can't imagine what their campus was. And it'd be easy to say, well, let's soften up on some of these things, you know. We don't want to offend anybody. And man, I was so impressed that this pastor held the line, stuck to the truth of scripture. And man, I I've been I've shared that story probably half a dozen times or more with people because it was just it impressed me.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

And the thing is, it's not when we talk about being okay with offending, it's not offending for offending sake. We're not like we're gonna test to make sure that they they got thick enough skin to be in my church, and so I'm gonna say something outlandish. No, it is holding true to scripture, and scripture says scripture's going to offend.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Yeah, it's a stumbling block. It is, and so when you hold the scripture, that that's gonna happen. But man, let's let's not be people who run away from it when it gets a little hard. And like I said, I we're not excusing a pastor who's just you know a jerk. That's not what this is about. But if if you're offended by something that the word of God says, man, wrestle with that. Lord, why did you say that? Why why does this matter to you? And in the process, the Holy Spirit will teach you the deep things of God, and you'll get to know more about his heart and his love for not just you, but for the whole world and and why this thing really matters to him. And so dive into that thing, like like you said earlier, don't let it take you down a rung. Use it to reach up and and grab more. Man, there's more in Christ. And if you'll just keep reaching, you're you'll find more.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

And that really brings us perfectly into the next point.

Jesus On Our Terms

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Is number four, is they wanted Jesus on their terms, and he came on the fathers. And the best example of this, and again, this is with so much grace and so much love. The best example of this is when you come to Christ questioning sexuality, and it doesn't go the way you want it. You see Christ calls for man and wife, you see these things, and you've got these attractions that everyone else is telling you is okay. And Christ says, Hey, no, that's not how I designed you. I want I want you to live differently. And I remember when I was young, my mom said it, and it I was at that age where I knew what was I knew what it was, and I knew it was wrong. And she brought a different aspect. She said, We need to keep in mind that we are asking some of these people to stay single, to stay lonely, to not have that intimacy that they feel like everyone else has. And we recognize that. And it's it's we it is hard when it's not the way we want it. We don't, we don't, we want Jesus on our terms, we want the forgiveness, we want all these things, and we want to be able to do the things that don't seem terrible but aren't what God called us to, and we want it to be okay. But he's on the Father's terms, and we have to submit to that. And when you can't, you run.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

We've had entire denominations uh that have separated and and started something new because of this stuff, right? We want we want God, we want Christianity, we want a relationship with Jesus on our terms. We want to define the relationship. And the truth is he gets to define the relationship. He has already laid it out. Um, sexuality is is a great example, but it just won. You know, we we have all these things, and God, and you're gonna fit within this box. And he's like, No, no, that that's not gonna work, you know, and so be very, very careful. And here's the thing when I was uh I was testing my kids last night when we were doing Bible time, and I was like, what is the the shortest verse in the Bible? And all of them knew it. Jesus wept. Perfect. All right, where is it? By the way. I knew it. I are you are so smart. Yes. I was like, all right, where is it? And so then they all start guessing, and I would just go to the uh, they were all in John, so they at least knew it was in John. But I would take whatever chapter uh verse that they said, and I would go to it and I would just read that verse. None of them got it right. So then we had to go and and get to the actual one. But Ellie said John 10, 10, which is one of my favorite verses, uh, where it talks about, you know, thief comes, steal, kill, and destroy. But Jesus said, I've kind of came that you would have life and you would have it to the full, or a rich, satisfying, abundant life. Here's the thing, man, when you'll surrender your terms to the Lord and just say, Hey, listen, I'm gonna lay all this down, and I'm just I'm whatever you say goes. He's already promised that it will lead to a rich, satisfying, abundant life. And we think, no, the only way I'm gonna be happy is if I claw and hang on to these things because this is what's gonna make me happy. This is what's gonna give me life. Scripture says, man, there's a way that seems right to man. In the end, it leads to death. The things that you're clawing on to now, oh man, I think it's is that in Hebrews? It says, Man, what did we profit from the things that we're now ashamed of? You you're holding on to these things right now, thinking it's gonna lead you to life, and it's not. One day, if you if you stay faithful, you you keep pressing into the Lord, you're gonna look back and be like, oh gosh, how did I ever hang on to that thing? You know, it's gonna seem so silly, so trivial in light of all that God has done for you. So just surrender the terms, man, and just say, Lord, whatever you say goes in this situation, in the moment, it's gonna feel like Loneliness. Oh, yeah. In the moment, it's gonna feel like a rejection of who you are, your identity, whatever. But in eternity, you're gonna see what that was all about, and you'll discover the heart of a God who loved you and created you for purpose and for life. So lean into that. That's why He came. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

And I love that. And it it's the flip side of what my mom pointed out. And it was a way to soften our approach to it. Like, look, we need to understand what we are kind of questioning or quoting these people on. But it's not like they're gonna stay or they're not going to be lonely forever, like you said. It's going to be what God brings is so much better than what we could ever imagine. And it feels so massive. So for those that aren't deconstructing, keep in mind what you're asking. It seems like a lot to give up the reins, but encourage them with the scripture that you pointed out. Like, there is so much good on the other, like we don't want the reins. I don't want to control what happens to me when I die. I want zero, zero responsibility there. All of that can be given to God. And if I'm willing to do that for eternity, why not give up the reins in life?

SPEAKER_03 45:11

Yeah, I think. Was it Carrie Underwood? I think she had it right. Jesus take the wheel. We got the throwback.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

All right, what's number five?

Bread Not A Cross

SPEAKER_01 45:20

They wanted bread, not a cross. Pick up your cross and carry it every day. Do the hard stuff.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

Like, nah, I'm just taking another basket of that bread. We're like, you know, when you go to uh Texas Roadhouse, the rolls at Texas Roadhouse, or the cherry butter and bread at Angry Bull. You know, literally anywhere. Anybody that gives you free bread, the bread sticks at Olive Garden. They give you good bread. Just keep it coming. Oh, yeah. And they're like, hey, we're gonna need you to go uh clean the dishes. And you're like, can I just get another basket of that bread? That was pretty good. Man, here's the deal, man. Nobody, nobody volunteers for a savor savior you got to follow up a hill of crucifixion for. We're not jumping up and down signing up for that. Nope. Hey, here's the call. Come and die. What? Am I at the right place? What are we talking about? Come and die? That's the call? Come and die? Yeah, that's it. Wake up every day, deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Hey, but isn't being a Christian easy? Isn't it just like the cop out because there's a whole lot of Christians, and so it's easy to be that because everyone agrees with you?

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Man, I've heard that so many times. Being a Christian, you're just taking the easy way out. I'm like, man, if you knew what it was like to get up and look yourself in the mirror every day and say, hey, buddy, go die so that I can follow Jesus. All of your goals, your dreams, your wants, your proclivities, whatever, go nail them to a cross and then follow Jesus. If you knew what that was like every day. And here's the thing. I truly believe, or I wouldn't do it. I truly believe that in Jesus there's more. That what he has is better. Otherwise, who would sign up for it? It would make no sense. And so yeah, yeah, the call's tough. Years ago I preached a sermon and I just titled it free with an asterisk. And the idea was it's the free gift that'll cost you everything. The gift is free. There's nothing you can do to earn salvation, there's nothing you can do to earn the favor of God. But once you say yes, it costs you everything. Deny yourself, pick up your cross, follow Jesus. John the Baptist said, He must become greater, I must become less. And that's that's the call of every Christian, every follower of Christ, is he has to become greater, I have to become less. We want, you know, it's similar to the provision. We want the bread, we want the provision. We we're not looking for the sacrifice, the surrender, you know, you talked about on Sunday. The call is surrender. Will you surrender to it?

SPEAKER_01 48:17

And what we want you to pull from this is not us putting you down because we've seen it before. It's a good thing. These problems have been identified. And once you identify the problem, right? Like I asked you when you first got here, why are you at church today? Are you here for just the bread or are you here because of him? It's the same thing. We've identified the problem, and now we can now we can fix it. Now we can attack it. Now we can address the issue. And at the end of the day, it does cost you. It's going to you are gonna have to pick up your cross, you're gonna have to give up, you're gonna have to be offended, you're gonna have to be okay with it. But if you give up the range, you let God, you own the vending machine, you're good.

SPEAKER_03 49:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

It's so much better.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

So we've uh we've identified five primary areas that that people kind of deconstruct. And listen, we're not saying this is easy. Um I I wish following Jesus was easy. That'd be great. Lovely. Yeah. So I'm not saying that. Can't promise you an easy road. I can I can promise you it's better. There's more in Christ. I believe it with all of my

Do It Here And Reach Out

SPEAKER_03 49:31

heart. And our our challenge, our call to you, no matter where you're at in this, is do it here. Do it here. Keep coming back, keep pressing in. Grab someone in your life group or you know, the leader of your volunteer team. You know, send Pastor Tim, myself, Pastor Jared, send us an email, and we'll schedule a time to try to meet with you and get coffee or something. Or a text. Text is probably more efficient. For Jared for sure. I don't even know. Do you remember your email password? What's an email? But keep keep pressing into these things, and and man, I'm just confident if if you do, the Holy Spirit's gonna lead lead you and into and reveal to you the deep things of God. And and you'll climb up the ladder that Pastor Jared was talking about instead of free falling into to despair, deconstruction.

Pray For Friends Who Are Doubting

SPEAKER_03 50:24

And then here's the other thing, Pastor Jared, because some of you might might be saying, Well, I'm I'm not I'm not deconstructing, I'm doing great. But we all know people who who have been or are in that process. And your call on Sunday was, you know, that these people, we need to be praying for them. You know, it's real easy to just hit them over the head with the the Bible. You know, my my mamma, she's got one of those really big, it's like four-inch thick King James pictures and everything. Pictures and everything. It's got birth and death records, you know. It's real easy to grab one of those, just try to hit someone over the head with it. We're saying, no, no, no, let's take a different approach. You know, these people, they they need you. They need someone that they can trust, that they can ask questions to. Um, and so allow them to come, be that safe place. Like we're saying we want to be that as a church, a safe place. You become that safe space for that person to wrestle with these things and keep pointing them back to scripture, not your opinion on it. Who cares about your opinion? Point them back to the word of God. And and when you don't know, just say, Man, I don't know, but let's dig into God's word together. I think that would be a huge testimony for them. And so our prayer in all this is that, you know, whether it's you or it's someone you love, that uh they would find a safe spot to have these questions um or to wrestle with these questions and and they'll discover more in Christ. Pastor Jared, will you pray

Prayer And Closing Ways To Respond

SPEAKER_03 51:46

for us? Of course.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Father God, thank you for who you are, and thank you that we don't we don't control it. Lord, thank you that you've you've worked out all the ways, you know what you're gonna do, you know what you want of us, you know the better way. Lord, we trust you in death, and I pray that you give us the opportunity to trust you in life, and that we do. Lord, I pray if there's anybody here that is is shaky in their faith, is asking questions that they think are too big to answer, Lord, that you'll give them the courage, because that's what it's gonna take, some courage to come up and say, Hey, hey, Pastor Jared, hey, Pastor Ryan, I've got some questions and they're hard ones. And you're you might learn something about me that's not pretty. Lord, I pray that you give them the courage to ask those questions because we're here for them. We're here to love on them, we're here to walk with them, we're here to equip them to do the work of you. And Lord, I just pray that you just give us the endurance and give them endurance and all goes well. And in Jesus' name, amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Thanks again for joining us for this episode of the Midweek Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Let us know how God is using this resource in your life or send any podcast questions or topic ideas to podcast at a freshwind.org. If you would like to support this ministry financially and help us continue offering new resources that equip you to discover more in Christ, simply text any amount to the number 84321. We're so grateful for your support. Make sure to tune in next week for a brand new episode of the Midweek Podcast. Be blessed and have a great week.