Welcome And Series Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome and thanks for joining us on this episode of the Midweek Podcast, brought to you by a Fresh Wind Church. Each week our team brings you new content to help you take steps towards Jesus and discover more in Christ. Today's episode is hosted by Pastor Ryan.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Well, hey, welcome back to the Midweek Podcast. Pastor Ryan joined as always with Pastor Tim, and we are in week five of our sermon series, Signs and Glory, where we're walking uh chapter by chapter, I guess, section by section through the Gospel of John. And so far, Tim, I this has been um I think one of my favorite summers we've done. I mean, Philippians, when we did Joyful.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

That was that was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

That was a great series. But John just, man, he's packing so much in. And I I think Sunday you I think this actually two weeks in a row, you're like, I got three three sermons to preach here today. Um, I think you got about two of them in, and so we might have to dive into that third one a little bit to close out today. Um, but man, just what a fun series this has been.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

I love it because um I would never normally say this, but um because we're taking such big chunks, we have to see how it links all together. You know, we have we have to wrestle with the whole bite instead of you know, I'm gonna uh dissect these couple words here and we're gonna focus there, which is something that we're used to and we love to do, but now it's like okay, here's this there's nine things, what's the most important that will connect with the next? And right and it's it's definitely been a different approach, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Uh, because we do, we usually it's a lot more granular, you know, uh verse by verse, sometimes word by word, scoping those things out. And I think, especially for the Bible nerds, you know, in the room, they love that kind of stuff. You know, you got you know, Larry Holtkamp, he's like, Yes, let's dig into that. Uh Dave Meyer, yes, let's do it. Dar and Reed, let's do it. Um, I think for a lot of people, you can almost get lost in the weeds and all that. And it's like, oh, that was cool. I don't really know what to do with all that. Yeah. Um and taking these bigger chunks, I was I was telling you after the sermon yesterday, I was like, I didn't know how I was gonna feel about that. You know, I'm trying to get it all done in one summer. Um, I was like, I I I was afraid we I was gonna feel like we're moving too fast. I still kind of feel that way. Like, man, we're we are skimming some of this stuff. At the same time, I think it's really helping to give not maybe not even 30,000, but like at least a 10,000, 15 foot thousand view of this whole thing that you you do. You start to picture or link these you know different things John's doing together.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Together, and you can make it more fluid for you that you can under understand the rhythm of what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

You I think what did you call him, poetry boy or something? Yeah, uh, you know, he's got this poetic thing to him as he writes, and I think in the granular word-by-word verse, but you kind of miss that. Yeah, and now you're starting to see as you we take these bigger chunks, you're like, Man, he is weaving all this stuff together, and it's masterful.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Yeah, it's it's it's like I haven't forgot what I said in chapter one. I'm still weaving that through, and and the stuff I said in chapter two, I'm gonna weave that through, and and the whole the whole book is starting to to look a little bit different, more like a river than a bunch of different little ponds, you know?

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah. If we had taken, you know, we could have easily spent at least two or three summers probably on John. Right. I just don't think we would have got that picture. We would have learned a lot for sure. Um I just I don't think we would have got this aspect of it all. So it's it's been challenging us to write these sermons and craft them in a bit different way, but I I think overall, man, it's it's given me a new take on John.

Nicodemus And The Slow Journey

SPEAKER_01 4:14

And one of my favorite things you brought up, Sonny, and it's really it's one of my favorite aspects in John, because here's he weaves this guy in and out multiple times throughout his gospel is Nicodemus. That story of him coming at night to to ask Jesus this question. And I mean, I've I've read John countless times, you know. I knew Nicodemus came at night, but then you brought up the significance of that and what John is saying when he says that. Right. Because it doesn't really matter what time of day he came.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

No.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

But John is letting us know, and there's man, it's it's rich. And so I love to kind of dive into the this Nicodemus guy a little bit today.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

All right, here we go with a podcast with a lot to talk about. And uh, but Nicodemus did come at night, and I think that symbolism there was that he was in darkness interested in the light, you know, and I I one of the uh problems we we have when we talk about doctrine is uh we believe the Holy Spirit begins to work on people and then they're able to receive um the knowledge of the truth and that they'll be able to make a decision. But sometimes we underthink that and say, well, they can't figure anything out while they're still in the dark. So because uh even Paul said, you know, you you can't it's it's senseless to you um if you haven't been saved yet. And we can't we kinda take those things, we put them together and say, Well, if he's in the dark, then he's he's not he can't progress, you know, in Jesus. So uh we gotta make a decision. Come on, Nicodemus, you gotta make a decision. And uh that's kind of what church has been like for the last hundred years, right? We optimize the moment, right? You know, uh the Holy Spirit talking to you. Well, we need to capitalize on that. Let's go, let's make that decision. Come on, uh raise your hand or come forward or let's optimize this decision. And we don't um uh do I want to say this word? We don't really respect the journey that people are on to get to that moment. Does that make sense? Yeah, and Nicodemus he was on a journey, and I I think that's one of the reasons John uh just kept bringing him up, you know, and first he came at night, he's in darkness uh and he came to investigate the light. And uh I I love that. And so we're in this intellectual phase with Nicodemus when he comes to Jesus. He's thinking, Man, just two plus two is four, right? Look what this guy's doing. And he's speaking to thousands of people. Um people believe he's God. He doesn't come to Jesus and say that, but you know it's in the back of his mind. And uh so here he comes kind of testing the waters of the light. And I I think evangelicalism today, um well, the the way the church does church is like no, you you know, you can't play around with what you think. This is faith. Jump. You know? Take that leap of faith and place your faith in Jesus Christ. And that happens to a lot of people. Don't don't get me wrong, it's both. Um but kind of disrespect that guy who's struggling. And here's Nicodemus. You know, you're asking me to lay down everything I am. I'm a Pharisee, I'm in the Sanhedrin, uh, I know my Bible, I know the prophets, I don't know if you're that guy or not. Um and Jesus is saying, You must be born again, you gotta have this moment. And Nicodemus says, uh you know, that moment is gonna cost me.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

I I don't think we use the word respect, the the weight for Nicodemus sometimes, you know. Um and and the weight for a lot of people, and John he gives us both examples, people whose life was changed in a moment, said yes, responded in faith, and never looked back. Right. And then he weaves in Nicodemus, this guy who's I mean, just on this journey. He's like, I don't know. And you know, there's this parable about Jesus talking about, you know, people building uh a home or structure, and he says, You you don't set out to build something before you count the cost. And it almost feels like that's kind of where Nicodemus is. You know, he's he's looking at the ledger here and going, man, I'm gonna have to everything I've built my life around, everything that I've believed that I've fought for, the the faith that I've defended, I'm gonna have to lay that down if I go all in over here.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

And he doesn't know, man, am I ready to push all those chips in the middle of this table?

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Um that's and there's a lot of people there. And um I think our uh assurance problem, uh, a lot of people struggle with their assurance of their salvation, uh, is one of the things that kind of force the issue for pastors. There's gotta be a a before, a clear before and a clear after. If you're gonna write your testimony, one of the things we ask you to do if you're gonna share Christ is to put together a testimony. Um there's gotta be this is before and this is after. And a real Christian must know the date that they gave their lives to Jesus or prayed that prayer, and um slow seekers, I don't like that word, are pressured to decide sometimes I think before you know the Holy Spirit has done it. We don't want to convince anyone, we want people to surrender to the Holy Spirit. That's right. And uh so um longtime believers wonder all the time if they were saved because they cannot point to a single moment. And then pastors and parents, we get kind of anxious when our loved ones are moving toward Jesus, but not fast enough to have that moment, you know, and I think sometimes um even in mine, people come and say, Well, I'm not sure I'm saved. And I said, Well, let's just pray right now and we'll write it down, and I'll be your witness. And they're like, Yeah, but that I I get that, and now I'll know it'll be in the back of my Bible, you know, June, whatever, this date, uh pastor was with me, you know, it's solidified right here. And I I think that's a great idea, but it really invalidates the walk to this point. I'm worried about this, you know, and sometimes that takes a long time getting there. And I and bringing in Nicodemus, number one, he has a conversation with Jesus, which enlightens the whole Bible. You know, you must be born again. I mean, that tell what that's exactly what Paul is talking about when he says, when you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. We're talking about that thing when you are born from above, you are regenerated, and Jesus lays it out for this guy. What would we do without John chapter three? How would we put that all together without Jesus saying you must be born anew, born from above? And uh so we owe a lot to this guy, and we can't just uh be flippant uh with his with his struggle. Now he struggles with Jesus, but on the day he's arrested, he stands up in the Sanhedrin and says, No, he he's gotta have uh a hearing. You you just you just can't do this. You gotta do it by the rules. And um I don't know where he was at this time, but it's that it's that slow walk to a to a decision. Uh no, I don't know where I am with this guy either, but you can't do this. You're not gonna do that. He's innocent. You have no proof. You I know those other guys are lying. I don't care what you say. I've been in the San Adrian a long time. I know what you do. He's gotta have a hearing. And uh and then uh later on he shows up with 75 pounds of uh burial um spices for Jesus. 75 pounds. That's uh that's a rich man's so Jesus Jesus had it had uh definitely affected his life.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

And uh and it and it it's taken some time.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

One of the things I love about this is when Nicodemus comes to him, right? We we sometimes think when you come in faith, it's almost you you have to abandon your your intellect, you know. Right. He comes and he doesn't lay any of that down. I mean he's asking and and you read John and you're like, these are stupid questions. You know, what are you talking about? Can I be born again? Can a man enter his mother's womb? You're like, Nicodemus, what the heck are you talking about? Right. But I mean, we have the the hindsight of the rest of the gospel and 2,000 years of pastors and theologians working all this out for us. This is just a man having a real conversation with Jesus, who he's got questions. And Jesus says, You have to be born again. He's like, What the heck does that mean? And he's trying to piece it, he's not laying aside his intellect. I mean, this is a smart, well-educated man coming to ask some pretty serious, authentic questions. Um, and he's genuine in it. You see him wrestling with it right there in this conversation with Jesus. And so for those of you who feel like, man, faith is blind, it's dumb, you you got to lay those things aside. I think Nicodemus says, no, you don't have to lay that stuff aside. You can you can wrestle with it. And Jesus doesn't rebuke him for his questions, he he just keeps going back to explaining what this thing really is. Nicodemus, you don't understand it. How how can you guys be so you know steeped in the scriptures and and miss this? This is what this has been about, and I think that begins to unlock some things for for Nicodemus, and then for people who grew up in the church,

Faith And Intellect Belong Together

SPEAKER_01 15:18

you know, I think you shared a story one time about you know evangelists coming in and they'd have all these crazy testimonies and stories and you know drug addicts and they were doing this and doing that. And my my experience is the same. You know, I grew up in church, we would bring in traveling evangelists all the time. I know we don't do a whole lot of that uh today. We'd have all these people come in, you would, you'd hear these stories, and you're thinking, man, their story is crazy. And then as a guy who's just grown up in church who's lived a pretty good life, you think, I need to go get a story. Right. So what do you do? You go start doing all this crazy stuff that you need God to save and rescue you from. And it almost, and I don't think this is what the traveling evangelists were trying to do, but it almost diminishes the testimony, or at least in the minds of people, of the person who's just been faithfully walking with Jesus. Which reminds me of the prodigal son, the other son, right? The one who stayed. And when the prodigal son comes back, he's like, Dad, I've been here the whole time. I've served you the whole time. I didn't, I don't have that story. Does my story not matter? And he said, Son, you've been with me all this time. Everything I have is yours. But we look at it and we're like, man, I don't I don't have that wild crazy testimony. And again, Nicodemus comes in as a guy who's lived a great life. He's done all the things. I mean, he is devout. He is devoted. You don't get to the position he's in if you are not crossing your T's, dotting your I's, you know, straight A student. Yeah. Here he is, and he comes in and he says, I don't have all of that. All that crazy story. I've lived a good life. And those often, you said it on Sunday, are some of the hardest people to reach. That is true. I feel like, man, I what does God have to save me from? I've done pretty good. And then Jesus confronts him with this. You have to be born again. Nicodemus, you've done a lot. But you haven't done the one thing that's required.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Right. I think the um the message, uh let's see, one of the messages and all this is when someone's intellectually seeking, and you know who they are. Well, what about this? What about Jonah and the whale? Really? Come on. What about the flood? Well, now that looks like there was a flood. Everybody's talking about it now, so that one doesn't come up. But you think he created the earth in seven days? Do you think he did, you know, that intellectual? It's almost um, and I talk about it in my ministry class when you're sharing Christ, when you start getting those questions, the Holy Spirit is not working on them yet. But they're working on it. And and we can't we can't let that go. You know, we need to pray for them and encourage them and uh and engage their intellect until the Holy Spirit uh reaches their spirit on that they need a savior. So uh dismissing someone like that, and we should never we should never do that, uh, they're probably not ready to uh have that moment, but we need to stay engaged with them because they're on a journey, just like Nicodemus here is on a journey. And it wasn't just Nicodemus, Jesus' brothers. They were like, We come to get him, we know he's crazy, we're gonna take him home. You know, we'll get him out of your hair. And uh so, but after Jesus rises again, you know, um Jude writes an epistle, James writes an epistle, and James becomes the leader of the Christian church in Jerusalem. Uh so sometimes it's a long walk.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I love people like my mom who she's like, if the Bible says I just believe it. And sometimes there's people out there that just have that level of faith. I don't need verification, I don't need it to make sense. Bible says it, I believe it. And that's awesome. And I wish we all had that kind of faith. But there is those people out there who they wrestle with those things, right? And Christians, we can't be afraid of that. You know, for a long time it was kind of Christian Christianity versus science, you know, and and these things are just battling against each other, and you got to deny the science to believe in Jesus. Over and over and over again, Christianity in the Bible proves itself to be true. Right. We've talked about on the podcast before, one of the number one resources archaeologists use when they're going to hunt for stuff is the scriptures. Right. It's true. Oh, that thing is hey, it's right where the Bible said it was. These things are true. You can have faith and confidence in it, and not a childlike faith. I mean, when I say that, I know that that sounds probably bad, but you're supposed to have childlike faith. I mean like this just blind trust kind of faith. Right. You can have faith in it because it's true, it's proven itself over and over and over again. And so you can you can rely on it. But Nicodemus came and he had to wrestle with all that stuff and say, Man, this is how do I how do I bring these two things in into alignment? Right. You're not who I thought you were supposed to be. This isn't what I thought the Messiah was gonna look like, right? And now you're born again. What are we talking about, Jesus?

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Right. I think the um what we do sometimes is when we find someone who is intellectually engaged. You know, I I I just don't know about this. And let me let me try to figure this out. And then we find people who are intellectually engaged in proving it wrong so they can let it go. You know? No, no, no, no. What about this? And Paul used this term, and we know it means that. And it's like, well, you know, we've been doing this for 2,000 years, and we kind of know what that means. And you just can't come up in 2026 and say, oh, everybody was wrong for the last 2,000 years, so we're gonna all those brilliant men who studied this over and over again, right? That lead all the way back to the apostles, they definitely had no idea what they were talking about, but I do. And so we have we have that. Um, and those that is not intellectually engaged, that's intellectually engaged to disprove. Prove it to free them of the fact that it is true. And uh so uh those are two different people. Absolutely. And uh Nicodemus is uh the first one. He's intellectually engaged because he's looking around saying, But guys, look what he's doing. Right. And they're like, You he can't be he's doing it by Satan. He's like, but guys, look what's going on, you know? And uh so he's he's in this battle, uh, this intellectual battle that leads to a spiritual moment. And we can't deny people that. I know we got a lot of uh friends and family, and um, you know, come to church on Easter. We're gonna preach about uh being saved. Those poor guys who only come on Easter, they only hear one sermon.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

And uh but I tell them every year, man, guys, listen, this is a big book. We got a lot of more stories that we can talk about.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

But on Easter we celebrate that and we're like, we gotta get them to Easter and and and maybe they'll get saved. And it's like, well, maybe they should come and listen to a story about Nicodemus who was struggling intellectually just like they are, and that he made steps, you know. I don't think he knew or had any idea Jesus was gonna pop out of the tomb in three days, but he was there and he paid the price to bury Jesus the way he should have been buried. You know, and and he was he was like, I don't care what you guys say, there's something going on here. And it's already affected him intellectually, and then I think after the resurrection, Nicodemus says He was right. And uh so as you if you got a family member or someone you love that is engaging intellectually, encourage that.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Yeah, don't don't be dismissive of it.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Yeah. Um because that might be their their long walk.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah. And don't be afraid, afraid of those questions. Scripture, like I said, you can have you can have confidence in it. And if you don't know the answer, that's all right. You know, God's gonna continue to to work on them and draw them. No one comes unless he draws anyways. Um so as they continue to wrestle with those things, um, just keep encouraging them in that man. Hey, open up scripture. If if they ask you a question you don't know, that's a great chance for you to go and do some research and say, hey, man, this is this is what I found in in scripture. This is what it says about. Yeah, well, what about I don't know, let me go do some more research. Right. That's okay. You don't have to have all the answers, but I think as they you keep presenting these things to them, they'll discover what you discovered. That God is faithful, that God is true, and that all of this is real, man. Uh, what would it take for you to convince your brother or your sister that you're the son of God? You know, that'd be rough. Yeah. Uh no, no, no. I remember. I I watched you. It would it would take you walking out of a tomb. I tell you, that's what it would take. Well, and that's what it took for for Jesus' brothers. Right. John even tells us they didn't believe. They didn't believe when he died. They did not believe. What did it take? Three days later, him saying, Hey guys, I'm hungry. Like, what in the world? Um, and then, like you said, I mean, they went on to be leaders in the church. They wrote books that we still have in our Bibles today, his own brothers. So, so don't be afraid of these things. People are on this journey towards towards Jesus, and man, we'd love for it to be fast. You know, we would. Yeah. Um I'll tell you this, Joy and I, we are we are living in the answer to prayers that we've been praying for 20 years. Our church, we shared it at the business meeting uh this past Sunday. We're living in the answer to prayers that we've been praying for 15, 16, 17 years. Sometimes it doesn't happen on the timetable that we want, you know. But God is faithful. And as you keep showing up, you keep being faithful, uh, you keep pursuing him, you keep helping others discover more in Christ just step by step by step, God's going to do what he does and he draws. You know, Paul said some plant, some water, God brings growth. And so trust him with that process and in due time. His word never returns void. It's effective every single time it goes out. So let it let it do what it does.

When Doubt Turns Into A Career

SPEAKER_03 26:41

I think well, we've been through a a big transition period um with atheism challenging Christianity and and um looking to prove the truth as a lie so they could let it go. And I I mean it's a big industry. It's funny that if you don't believe in something, that you would spend all your spare time and make a career out of trying to prove uh a fairy tale wrong. I mean, just the effort that goes in makes you go, hmm, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Like, I'm a Christian, which means I think you know, other faith religion are wrong. Do you know how much time I devote to Muslims studying the Quran? Zero. Zero. Like it's it's not the truth. So where do I spend my time in God's word? These people devote an obscene amount of time to trying to disprove something. Yeah, it does, it makes no sense.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

It's it's like, do you really not believe? I think they I think they're really struggling with it. You know, dogs.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

I think some of them have more faith than a lot of Christians I know.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Right. And uh, I mean, they're desperate, desperate to prove it wrong, books after books after books, and a lot of them is I can make money this way, you know, and on YouTube you'd see them coming up with the same stuff we dealt with in the 70s, that we dealt with in the 20s, that we dealt with in the 1800s. I mean, it's it's like they come, oh but look at this, and we're like, yeah, we we've been there and done that already.

unknown 28:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Well, we've talked about that on the podcast. Our our faith is an ancient faith, man. And these things, every 30, 40, 50 years, they come back up and it gets real hot, blows up, everybody acts like it's a brand new idea, and it's gonna derail the Christian faith and the Bible, and all and it's like, no, it gets hot for about a year or two, and then that you know, whack-a-mole come around, beats that thing back down, right? Something else comes up.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Yeah, I think um I think we live in a time period that people are are starting to realize, hey, that Christianity is a thing. I don't know why it's a thing. Uh, we have a lot of people now encouraging people to stay away from Christians because it can mess up their lives. And uh, which I don't I don't know if that's ever been true, but you we see people coming to Jesus and just flipping their whole life upside down. And uh now they're encouraging you to stay away from them because anything can happen, and it's like you should question that. You know, you want me to stay away from them about a fairy tale about Santa Claus? You know, they they believe in Santa Claus, and now you want you we should be afraid of them. No, they know something's going on. Right, the whole world does. And so um when you have someone who's intellectually engaged, don't run them off with uh, no, you gotta have that moment. Let's pray right now. And uh because sometimes, you know, they've gotta they've gotta check some boxes in their mind um so that they can open their heart, and and that's not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Well, again, Jesus said, who who builds a house without counting the cost? You know, these it might be the process. We have no idea what God's doing in that person's life. And and it would be nice if God drawing people to himself looked the same for everybody because then we'd know, oh yeah, this is what's happening. Right. Um and we we don't mean to to belittle people who got saved in a moment. That happens all the time. I mean, right, Billy Graham would show up, fill stadiums, preach, people would go forward, give their lives to Jesus, and again, never look back. Life's radically changed in a moment. It happens, it just didn't happen that way for everybody. And and we're saying we need to for those people who it takes time, like Nicodemus, man, let's let's be there to support and encourage and champion them and and not try to force the issue. If you force them into something, and that wasn't them responding to the Holy Spirit, that was I guess that's the next thing. And okay, I they told me to do it, so I better do it. And then when things get hard, that seed doesn't last. Yeah, another parable Jesus said, Man, he was a good teacher. Careful. Well, he'll slap you have to be born again, onion. Yeah, yeah. I guess Nicodemus said the same thing. Lord, we know you're a good teacher.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

Well, I think there's um another thing in this passage that I didn't get to cover

John The Baptist Refuses Competition

SPEAKER_03 31:42

very well. Um Nicodemus is fascinating and and like I said, thank God for Nicodemus and his uh intellectual struggle, his that that whole thing, because it really helps us in in real life. Um but also John models something in this John the Baptist model something in the in this passage of scripture in the end when his his uh disciples were getting a little competitive with Jesus' uh ministry and said, Hey, you know what? Everybody's going over there to be baptized with Jesus. And uh even people who you baptized are going over to be baptized with Jesus. Uh what are we gonna do about that? And John is like, Listen, they were not mine in the first place. He's the bridegroom. He is the one that's supposed to be with the bride. I'm just the best man. I just stand up with him and encourage him, you know, uh for his for his wedding. And John is uh he's got this uh he's brilliant. He man, he is the if you watch his life, he is the epitome of um of so many evangelists and they get going real strong and they make a big dent and then things slow down and they question their whole life. God, am I doing the right thing? And then bam, it hits again, and um and evangelists go through that up and down thing. You know, one minute I'm speaking to thousands and now I'm speaking to ten. And uh so they they got this struggle in their life. Am I doing the right thing? Am I gonna be the next Billy Graham, or I'm gonna be a nobody, or does this person do I even want to do this anymore? And and that's a struggle for a lot of them. But at the same time, we see John, who is probably the greatest evangelist, um, coming in and saying, guys, that's his bride, and he's gonna decide what happens. I must decrease so that he may increase.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

What did Jesus say about John the Baptist? Of those born of women, which means everybody. Can't get out of that one if you're following along. He's talking about everyone. Um, he says, There's no one greater. You know, that's part of that Marvel series we did, the Marvel book. Uh, I'm hoping to put together um have out this fall. So I had thanks for throwing that out last week. A couple people like, oh, you're writing a book. I was like, uh it was kind of under wraps till Tim.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Just about everything is under wraps until 10.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

But uh, well, I blew up uh a vacation for some people in our church because I was talking to their daughter about baptism, and I was like, oh, but you guys are gonna be out of town on vacation that week. And I get a text from the dad, hey, you told her about vacation? I was like, I didn't know. So that's that might just be a me and you thing. But John is, man, he's he's fascinating. And here's a guy who who has I mean, devoted his life again to this thing. He he lived crazy, man, out in the wilderness, wearing ridiculous clothes, eating food. Everybody else is like, uh, no, thank you. Baptized, and people, I mean, by the thousands would go out to see him. Right. And from, I mean, he looked crazy, but he looked like a success. Right. I mean, if we're tracking just the numbers, right? He's successful. And so his disciples' question is is real. Hey man, um, everybody left. Do you see what's happening down the down the road at that church? And you know, you you talked about it. Pastors have that same thing too.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

You know, man, look at that church. Look at oh man, look at all the people over there. I don't know how many people are in their parking lot because frankly, we're here. I don't know what their parking lot looks like. Yeah, but you you hear stories and there's man, what's going on? And we gotta, we gotta, how are we gonna reach all what are we gonna do? Um man, this oh, it's it it's exhausting. Yeah, you go to you know, pastor conferences and these church conferences, and everybody wants to know how big's your church, how many people you run in. And we it always gets asked, and and I think most pastors are just trying to celebrate what God's doing. Yeah, but there's always that, oh man, they're doing better than me.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

You know, there it's just there we got it. And that's part of the surrender that a pastor has to go, you know. They always bring up the guy, yeah, we started two years ago and now we got 14,000, and it's like I've been at this for 20 years. Right, right, you know, and uh but if he's actually reaching people, and that's a little bit of my jealousy kicking out there, if he's reaching people, then he must increase and I must decrease. Right. If he's if if people are responding, I don't want to get in the way with that. I want to support him, I want to be his best man. How can I make you more effective?

unknown 36:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

And that is the thing that man, that seven little words he says right there, he must increase and I must decrease. That applies to all of life.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Every area of life. Um there's not an area that that we live, we move, we exist, that that doesn't apply. Yeah. In every situation, every decision that we make, every relationship that we have, he must increase, I must decrease.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Let's cover I got five things listed

He Must Increase In Decisions

SPEAKER_03 37:30

here on how he must increase. I think we got time for him. If we go quick. If we go quick. Um First, when you're facing a major life decision, you have to decrease your own desire and plans so that Christ's will for your life will increase and guide you toward what he actually wants for your life. That's super difficult.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Well, most of our prayers, right, when it comes to this sort of thing, is God bless my plan. God, this is what I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

We don't phrase it that way.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

But that's what we mean. That's what we mean. That's what we mean. God, I got this plan. I got, you know, this job, this house, this city, this car, these amount of kids, you know, we got it all laid out. And now I just want you to come make it all happen. That's man, so many of us. We're we're right there. I'm listening, I've fallen into that before too, right? No, no, no. Hold on, stop. He must increase. God, what do you want in this thing? What does it look like for me to surrender to you in these plans?

SPEAKER_03 38:38

So here's an illustration about that. Would God not give you the promotion, not give you this job that would double your income and free your family of the financial stress you're under all the time? Would He not give you that to see some guy that's on that intellectual walk with Nicodemus that you work with every day, and he wants you there until that moment arrives? Would he do that? That's a double yes. He don't care. He's like, This is the most important thing on the planet. I came to seek and save those who are lost, and I've given that mission to my people. And and of course, we want to say, Lord, can't we do both? Both? Let's do both, you know. Um, but sometimes, you know, God's will is more important than what you want. And I think a lot of times, uh when James says we ask amiss, be because our our values are twisted, our priorities are not lined up, and uh, but John sums it up, he must increase. So when we pray, we need to say, Lord, I want you to increase in this decision. If you're not gonna increase, then I don't want it.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Well, your will be done, right? On earth as it is in heaven. That's that's the prayer. Lord, this is what I I would love. And this is what I'm praying for. But your will be done. That's him increasing and you decreasing. What you want in this situation is more important than what I want.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

And it's important um in our relationships too.

Humility And Forgiveness In Conflict

SPEAKER_03 40:18

It's it's so important in the church. Um when you have conflict in your church, uh, you're messing with the mission. Uh, and you must decrease your need to be right or defended so Christ can increase through your humility, your forgiveness for someone else, and your reconciliation. That is that is a hard pill to swallow, but I'm right. They were wrong, they shouldn't have done this. They they singled me out, they embarrassed me, they they shouldn't have done that. You are absolutely right. They should not have done that. But for Christ to increase, you need to be humble and forgive and reconcile.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Again, we've said it a lot. Uh you can never be more like Jesus than when you forgive. Right. That's that's who he is.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

It's the most godly thing you can do.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

And so in those relationships where you want to fight and defend yourself and stand up for your honor and whatever else it is, what does it look like for him to increase in that situation more often? I would say every single time. Yeah, it's for gift, forgive. Take the road of humility, pursue peace and reconciliation as much as it depends on you, Paul said. Live at peace. So do whatever it takes. And I've seen so many relationships thrown away over sometimes the dumbest stuff just because someone won't be humble. You know, they they won't say, I'm sorry. And it's like, man, these that's your brother, that's your mom, that's your mother-in-law. What are you doing? These are some of the most important people that God's placed in your life, and you're gonna throw it away. Right. He must increase.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

It happens for stupid reasons. I remember uh when we were moving into this building and we were gonna get carpet in there, and I told you, just go pick it, we'll put it in. Well, maybe we should ask some people, and I'm just like, you know how many churches that have broken apart because of the color of the carpet? We're not doing it, go pick it, and if they have a problem with it, then just come to you and it's all centered on one guy, and they're all together. That's what happened. And that's what happened.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Who picked this carpet? How do we I did?

SPEAKER_03 42:41

So we we need to protect ourselves from that kind of I hate to say stupidity, but it is stupid to lose a relationship over the color of carpet. But it happens everywhere.

unknown 42:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

You know, they got what they wanted, I didn't get what I wanted. It's in a church, you only go there on Sunday. What's the big deal? You know?

SPEAKER_01 43:01

And fix your eyes up on Jesus and you won't look at the carpet. Right. Wow. I'm thinking I just about killed Pastor Tim.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

I just trying to imagine you actually saying that to someone.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

I didn't. I did not. And thankfully, the couple people uh that didn't like it have come back to say, hey, you know what? The carpet's grown on me.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

When we get to heaven, you're gonna have one, uh, you're gonna realize that there's one or two things that's really important. One is your eyes on Jesus, number two is your relationship with others. That is the greatest commandments right there. So we fix your relationships. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Next one you had written down here is uh in your career and ambitions.

Ambition And Work As Kingdom Service

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Yeah. We when we're driven There's nothing wrong with that, don't get me wrong. But when we're driven for personal success and status, and I want to be the boss because I know better than everyone else. Now, when I say that, sometimes you need to be the boss because you know better than everyone else. And that's okay. That's absolutely okay. But in that situation, we still need to make sure that Christ is increasing and you're decreasing. You're serving others, using your work for his kingdom purposes. That's important. So if you want to be a success and you want to work your way to the top, you just need to get on your knees and say, Lord, you I'm gonna I'm gonna do everything I can to be the boss, and I'm gonna use it. I'm gonna use everything to bring your kingdom.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Yeah, my son Ty is working for uh a guy in church, Tim, and owns a owns a company and you know does a lot of the kind of stuff that it's right up my son's alley. And so uh he had the opportunity to go work for him, and almost every every week Ty and I will have a conversation about what he's working on and how things are going. And he just, man, he's blown away by how Tim treats him. Um, you know, he's he says, Dad, I sometimes I feel bad because we're we're sitting there and he's paying me to work, but we're just talking about the theology or whatever. And then um, you know, it wasn't too long before he he gave Ty a raise, and I mean he's treating my son so well. Well, my son's very entrepreneurial, wants to own his own business one day, and I'm I'm looking at Ty saying, hey, remember how he's treating you when you have a company. This is a guy who's who he's the boss, right? He owns the company. And yet, in all of it, the way he treats people, it's is evident. Man, this is more important about God and treating people right than it is about anything else. And God, I believe, is blessing him because of that. And my son is sitting here learning these lessons in that because a man figured out what it looks like for God to increase and him to decrease in his career and what he does.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Yeah, that's awesome. Here's the tough one, though, how you handle suffering and trials.

Suffering That Deepens Dependence

SPEAKER_03 46:21

You gotta decrease your demand that life be comfortable and fair so that Christ can increase through developing your perseverance, faith, and even a deeper dependence on him. That's man, we love those words. Yeah, let's let's move on to the next one.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

But boy, do we hate to have to cultivate them.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Sunday, um I felt like the Lord told me to get up and and uh pray for some people, and I had three people in mind when I stood up and and the whole church prayed for them, and then I asked anybody else, and hands went up everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

All over the room. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

There are suffering and trials going on in everybody's life, and uh God is using those things to grow you into a deeper relationship with Him to give you perseverance and strength. And I know it's tough. I struggle with it myself, um, but I'm struggling with it right now with my knees. I'm saying, man, I feel pretty good today. Maybe I should cancel that surgery because I'm doing good. And then, you know, a storm blows through and knocks all my trees down, and then I get out there and try to pull these branches around, and I'm like, man, I need that surgery. Um it's just back and forth, and God wants me to say, Hey, you need to leave that with me. Let me make your decisions for you, let me increase here, and I'll I'll increase your perseverance, your dependence on me. And then, man, that's just hard to no, I just want to be fixed.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Oh, what does scripture say teach us? The God of all comfort comforts us so that we can comfort others. And again, it's like, God, thank you for your comfort. But what does that mean that you were uncomfortable? Right. Otherwise, he didn't need to comfort you, right? Right. And so we're gonna go through these things, but in there, God is He is still good, He's still faithful, and He's going to use you to bring comfort to others, He's going to produce faith and perseverance, that dependence on Him in you in your life, um, because He's He's working on sanctifying us through and through, man.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

Yeah. It's it's a hard uh pill to

Spiritual Pride And God’s Holiness

SPEAKER_03 48:52

swallow. It kind of moves into this last one, too, in your spiritual growth and maturity. You got to decrease your self-reliance, your spiritual pride so that Christ can increase as you become more aware of your need of his grace and transformation in your life. Um, it's easy to get on a good streak. You laid a couple things down, you're thinking, Man, I'm doing pretty good. I got I even memorized some scripture, I'm doing my uh Bible reading, I'm gonna read through the Bible this year, and you get I'm I'm doing pretty good. Well, guess what? That's when Christ needs to increase and you need to decrease because it's not about you, it's about him leading you. Yeah, there's never a situation when you're dealing with uh our great King Jesus that surrender is not involved. I use that name King Jesus because that's who he is to us, and we need to surrender our will to his in every area of our life, and that's what John was teaching us um in the greatest phrase there and applies to every area of your life. He must increase and I must decrease.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

We realize when it comes to this whole thing, right? Um God is He is holy, man. Um in our life group, we're studying um I'm trying to think of the name of the book. I think it's called Do You Believe by Paul David Tripp. And it's a lot of kind of the core doctrines of the Christian faith. The one that we're studying this week is the holiness of God. And he brings up um Isaiah chapter six, and you know, uh Isaiah gets this to see heaven. He says, I saw the Lord high and exalted, seated on the throne, the train of his robe, it filled the temple. There was these beings around him, and they're saying, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. I mean, that's like saying that guy was really, really, really big. And so you know, when someone says that, you know, okay, this this dude was ripped. He was this is what is it? It's it's beyond what you can comprehend. Whatever you think about holiness, he's bigger. That's what the angels are saying. It is amazing. He is so holy. But it comes, this is Isaiah's response to all of that. Woe to me, I am ruined, for I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty. When we get a glimpse of just how holy God is, there's one response, and it's that we fall on our face, man. Woe is me. He must increase, I must decrease. And when we see that, we see we become more aware of his our need for his grace and his transformation and his forgiveness. And even those who lived a pretty good life, you know, like Nicodemus, born again, what are we talking about here? I mean, I've I haven't killed anybody, you know, I pay my taxes, I take care of my family. I'm a pretty good guy. When you realize just how holy God is, all of those things begin to look like, oh boy, woe is me. I'm in desperate, desperate need of a savior. And God so loved the world that he gave.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

What a what a beautiful passage of scripture. Um like I said, I'd like to spend more time on that. But we've we've preached that before, and um, but some beautiful things that we're able to cover here on our podcast. Thank thank the Lord for the podcast with us doing John the way we're doing when we get a chance to grab a hold of some things and and uh wrestle with them. And uh I we need him in our church to increase and we need to decrease. That's right. Lord, where do you want us to go? What do you want us to do? I mean, we got plans, but we want his we want his plans to be our plans. And that's uh that's what we want to do here at A Fresh Wind. If we ever get out of that, you need to kick us. Father, I want to thank you um for Nicodemus. Thank you, Father, for his slow walk towards you. Um his questioning. Because people we love are in the same mode, and I pray that we'll give them the grace that Jesus gave Nicodemus. And uh the same grace that Jesus gave his brothers. And I I pray that you'll give us a sensitivity to that. And Lord, in our lives as Christians, we need to take up the take up the call or the whatever John said there, whatever you want to put it, the mantra that you must increase and we must decrease. Because that's life with you. And uh, Lord, I know that being your best man might not put us uh in the limelight, but it is the place of joy, and that's how we want to live in Jesus' name.

unknown 54:22

Amen. Amen.

Prayer Closing And Ways To Connect

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Thanks again for joining us for this episode of the Midweek Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Let us know how God is using this resource in your life or send any podcast questions or topic ideas to podcast at a freshwind.org. If you would like to support this ministry financially and help us continue offering you resources that equip you to discover more in Christ, simply text any amount to the number 84321. We're so grateful for your support. Make sure to tune in next week for a brand new episode of the Midweek Podcast. Be blessed and have a great week.