SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome and thanks for joining us on the Blue Chair Podcast, brought to you by Fresh Wind Church. Each month, we discuss the latest sermons from the perspective of the Blue Chairs.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Hello, and welcome to the Blue Chair Podcast. I am Pastor Jared, and with me as always, we have Charles Magar. Say what's up. How's it going? It's going well.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

I was asking everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Oh, hardware. But this month, we actually are just soloing it. We don't have anybody else here with us. And so it's just me and you hanging out, talking about the part two of the Marvel series, which I like that one. Not even just because I got to preach part of it, but I just like that one in general.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

No, it was a good one. Um like I was telling you before we started, I think every topic from every week, I could you could talk about it for hours.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Oh, for sure. I mean, they not even just the topics and like what humility is and what repentance is and things like that, but talking about understanding like God looked at these people and like He He did good. Yeah, He nailed it. Like that's that in and of itself is awesome to even just think about. I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

No, not crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

But we have four weeks. We talked about humility, we talked about worship, we talked about repentance, and we talked about heart. And four different preachers, four different sermons. And I think Ryan with the heart, he touches on everything with it, and he did a fantastic job bringing that all together and leaving us on that note that um none of this happens without the heart.

Guarding Your Heart In A Loud Culture

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

You want to jump into uh Ryan's sermon first? Sure. And what we walked away feeling and thinking from the perspective of the blue chairs, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:18

Right. Um, I mean, one of the things that I got out of it is um I kind of posed a question for myself is uh what are some ways people can guard their hearts in a culture that constantly shapes our desires? And I know we've talked about it before, but you know, when Jesus tells us that it's what comes out of a heart is what defiles a man, well, what comes out of your mouth defiles a man because it comes from the heart. And ultimately I feel, you know, we were just talking about this at Life Group too, that we're surrounded in a world of things that are against us or could corrupt us in some way or another. And I think about um social media, which is like the biggest one right now, between TikTok, Facebook, you know, Instagram, whatever. How many hours do people spend scrolling through these things, not realizing, you know, in your mind you're like, oh, I'm just reading it, but ultimately it really is affecting you. The things we surround ourselves with are affecting us. And you know, even friends of mine have asked, like, why I've stopped listening to certain music, and this all ties in with the heart stuff, is like what we take in, whether we realize it or not, really is changing our heart posture in one way or another. Oh, yeah. So when I hear like the things Ryan was talking about, um, I just think about like if we spent less time scrolling through these negative things and more time doing positive things, like how much different would your heart look if you were kind of purging yourself from the things of the world and filling it with the things that we should be filling it with?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Oh, yeah. And it happens slow, it's not like a big abrupt, like you listen to one Taylor Swift song and you're like hating everything and terrible. And uh it's a it's a slow burn where it just these things kind of rub off on you and you become a little bit more cynical, maybe, and you you laugh at a couple more jokes that probably were inappropriate and not a good place to have them, and um good place, just not a good joke to tell. Yeah, um, but it's it's a slow burn, and then you get to a point where you kind of like look back and you're like, ooh. Or even worse, that stuff someone else notices it in you, yeah, and you embarrass yourself a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 4:37

Even on the opposite end though, too, is like as like even for music, for instance, that's one that I think I drastically changed fast was what music I was listening to. Um, and even now, um, because you said it's like a slow burn in the sense of how it makes you negative, but at the same time, it's slow to realize as you're getting rid of those things, how much better of a person in general you're becoming. Um, because like as I started to purge the music out, you know, I started noticing like a difference in my attitude and a difference in how I approach certain things.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

And and I I would have never guessed that that would come from is that why you're like unbelievably happy all the time and that's a lie.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

Because I will never say I'm the happiest person all the time. No, but it's just like you realize the change in yourself, and it's not like you it's a slow burn in the same sense, but on the opposite end of the spectrum, where it's like you slowly start to become aware of these things that you're no longer doing things that you used to do.

What You Consume Shapes You

SPEAKER_01 5:39

But I like it. What stuck out to me on this one, um, and I think it's just a pattern. I noticed this, and it it's when I hear it, it just makes me makes me think on it. You know what I mean? Um that God entrusts responsibility to those whose hearts are aligned with his. And Ryan points to um Acts 13, 22. It says, I have found David, the son of Jesse, to be a man after my own heart who will carry out my will. And then he goes and points out the like the order of operations of that. It wasn't like, here I am, Lord, send me and I'll fix myself on the way. It's hey, my heart's already aligned to you. I already want what you want. Now God's like, all right, I can do something with that. Now it doesn't mean perfection, it doesn't mean we don't sin. It doesn't mean we never mess up, it doesn't mean that we're always like showing up to church on Sunday morning in a good mood, right? I think Tim was talking about it every once in a while when he does uh um the huddle where he's like, hey, we're usually running around doing something and focused. If we're not smiling, poke us. Yeah. And be like, smile. Like we're it's just we're people still, yeah. But what we want to happen, what we want out of life, what we want to things that we think are good and beneficial and holy and things we want to be a part of are already after God's heart. And so then God says, All right, I can work with this, we can fix the rest. Let's see what let's put you into action. And that is so important for us when we're in a position where we want to teach, whether it's teaching the preschool room or teaching doctorate level classes at liberty. If our heart is corrupt, if our heart's not working towards God, it's going to affect what we're doing for. And it's going to, we're not going to be the right people for that. And it's going to be obvious sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

Yeah, and I like that you said that because it kind of pairs with, you know, a verse that I had here when I was reading through all this is from Proverbs 4.23, and it says, Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flows the spring of life. So it's like, if I'm someone who's absorbing things that are constantly making me angry, like how if that's affecting my heart, how is my heart flowing the spring of life out? And that I think about that with my kids and stuff too. It's like if I'm if I'm constantly taking things in that's making me angry and everything else, like I should be speaking life into my kids, and that comes from the heart. And if I'm filling my heart full of all these negative things, how am I giving life to my children?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Oh, yeah. So and sometimes you have to have a conversation with people, um, people you're close to when you're like, hey, you've kind of been a Debbie Downer lately. No offense to anybody named Debbie. It's just a saying. You've kind of been a downer lately, and uh it's kind of like making me a little pessimistic. Can we like what's going on there and address it? And I think that's beneficial because we are we are the church, and like obviously you have to say that kindly and with love and all of that good stuff. Um, don't copy my words verbatim if you have this conversation. All right, and watch what you do. Like, sometimes it's not a conversation that needs to be had, but um if it's someone you're invested in, like a spouse, and you notice that your spouse is like just in this real negative headspace lately, and you're feeling it affects you too, and how like how you're acting and how you're thinking and where your mind goes when there's something goes wrong, like it's sometimes it's beneficial, like as the church to have that question, to have that conversation and be like, hey, I'm noticing this stuff. Is there a reason for it? Is there like are you listening to a new podcast? Maybe that is like I know for me, and I learned this the hard way. There is like I have to like watch the music I listen to regularly. I know you just brought this up. I don't know why it just dawned on me like it was an epiphany. But like Ryan always jokes that I listen to sad cowboy music. I do, it's kind of cool, but if I listen to too much, I start getting like all sad cowboy-esque, and I'm not cowboy at all. I was born and raised in Lorraine, Ohio, it's the last cowboy place on earth, right? But I start getting all like not pessimistic, but I feel like this heavy dark, or I don't know how to describe it, I don't know. And it's it's because everything that's coming in isn't necessarily what it should be. You know what I mean? It's not necessarily that this music is bad, but are you like, what are you putting in more of? Am I spending more time in the word or listening to this new album on repeat? That sounded really cool.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Yeah, which we talked about that before because there's a lot of artists out there that they're not like the words they use are not bad words, like they're not using profanity, you know, they're talking about real life truths, and their their art form is fantastic. The way they can put together lyrics is amazing, but at the same time, it's like it's all depressing music. So it's like, how long can you listen to you know five depressing songs in a row day after day before it really starts to eat away at you?

A Heart God Can Entrust

SPEAKER_01 10:51

That's the truth. Jumping, same same sermon we're talking about, Pastor Ryan's sermon about the heart. Um, I love that he points out that being after God's heart does not mean sinless perfection. Yeah, the thing about David was he wanted to obey God above everything else. That doesn't mean that he never slipped up, he never messed up, he wasn't a fool sometimes. He was. But he wanted to. And I've heard a put similar, but same, same, but different, where it was when he messed up, what did he do? He didn't run and hide, he went straight to God.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

Yeah, I actually have a note in here about that too.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

What that he went to God when he messed up?

SPEAKER_04 11:35

Well, yeah, it was uh when Nathan approached him about uh sinning against the Lord with Beth Seba or whatever, and it it wasn't like a delayed response, it was he went instantly to God and repented for it.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah. Well, well, while most of us are like, well, I mean, there's a reason why. Yeah, like I mean, yeah, it was wrong, but I have a reason. Yes, I yelled at that person, but like, or I I screamed at my kids' face, but they were really annoying, and they're the reason they were so close to my face because they wouldn't give me any space. We try to make up all these excuses to like why our sin is okay. When David was just like, Man, I messed that one up.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

Yeah, that was all up.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

And that's that is so maybe the words encouraging.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

No, it I that's why I love reading anything from David because he made mistakes. Yeah, he to me, in terms of like the repentance and everything, like that, he's a good role model in the sense of like that's what we should be doing.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Um, not a good role model in other areas of his life, but yeah, that his interaction with God is undeniably, to me, one of the strongest you see through scripture.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

So it is. And just a tangent since we're on David. I love David so much too, because he would be able to like get in his feels and discuss his feelings.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

As a man. Like, all right, David was probably harder than us all.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

And it was like poetic.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah, like David was king, he went to battle, he did like he was a he was a tough guy. And then he's writing about like all this sad, poetic loving the Lord stuff, and you're like, Man, where are the men that are doing that today? Where it's like the toughest dude on the block is also like, Man, I love the Lord. Like, that's awesome stuff.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

It is literally the whole irony of David is yes, he was more manly than any of us, but he was also one of the smallest ones. Yeah. A small little shepherd boy who becomes one of the greatest warriors while still remaining poetic and loving with God. And it's just like you watch his whole story unfold and you're like, where did I go wrong? But on point with David, and even with the fact that he went and repented to God, kind of to tie in with your sermon, which I brought this up to you before we started, but um a lot of us, and I am even at fault for it at times where when I know God is really like putting his thumb on me a little bit because I'm getting out of place, whatever, a lot of times like we can see that as such a negative thing. And like I was telling you in Psalms 23, when he says, Thy rod and thy staff that comfort me, I I ponder on that verse a lot because I'm like, here's a guy who obviously was not perfect, did some wrong things, repented all the time, but he took comfort in correction. Where a lot of times, like we see correction in such a negative view, that we're like, no, I'm right, I'm justified in what I did. Why are you correcting me? Well, it's like, no, we need correction. Um, if I trust in myself every day, I'm gonna fail every day. Like, I I need to put trust in God and and accept that correction. But what I was telling you, you know, when I was kind of studying that verse, just because I I don't know, I've been chewing on it for a while. The whole, you know, like I was telling you, the rod being used on the enemies, you know, that's what protected his people, and the staff was there for correction. So it's like, if I can trust him enough for him to use his rod on my enemies, like I don't want the rod used on me. And Tim, in one of his sermons a while back, talked about like it's a shepherd's job. If a sheep goes astray enough, sometimes you gotta break his leg. You gotta keep it in line. And I'm like, I don't feel like having my leg broken.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Yeah, that's less than ideal.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

I'm uh I'm sure at some point, maybe I don't I'm not trying to guess the future, but I would really hope that uh I don't need my leg broken.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

I volunteer.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

I mean, if God says you can do it, I'll accept it.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Fair enough. I'll walk in there with like a baseball baby, like, sorry, got some.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

Can we find a better way of doing it?

SPEAKER_01 15:31

I mean, I suppose, but less fun? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

But I mean, just that with what you said and just the whole story of David, like every time I feel like I'm struggling with something, I'm I'm fairly certain if I go back to any story of David, I can find an answer to something.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

David's David's got some good writings. Um, what do you want to jump to next? Or else we're gonna talk about the heart all time.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

Which I mean, it's not a bad thing to talk about the heart the whole time, but no, I mean we can talk about uh Mark Brooks's one too. I forget the title for his though.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

I've named it All Gas No Breaks.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

All Gas No Breaks. I mean, that is an awesome little slogan for you.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

That is the thing that I walked away from. He nailed that. I don't know if why it just clicked with me, but like before I went up and closed at the end of the sermon, like I wasn't thinking, like, I don't have an idea of what I'm gonna say until it's like all right, time to go up. I'm gonna try to pull something he said, connect it into a farewell type thing, and move on. And he said, all gas, no breaks. And in my mind, I'm like, that's good. And like that's what I thought about like all week long. Like, how are we how are we worshiping? How are we like living our everyday life for God? All gas no breaks. No, I love it. No questions about what we're doing, no one's wondering where our hearts are, no one's wondering um like what our intentions are or anything. It's all how can I serve God better? How can I know God better? How can I um think God better? How can I worship God better? And I'm never gonna let up. Dude, that's what that's what I walked away from thinking for still to this day.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

I just really loved the very beginning when he first starts talking about um, I couldn't remember his name, I still can't remember his name, but the guy who told his soldiers to go back and burn the boats, because I'm sitting there thinking, like, first of all, like let's just say, right, we had to go to a certain piece of land right to worship God. And we took boats there and we're terrified because something we've never done before, or you know, we have no idea what's awaiting for us on that piece of land. And the person leading us says, All right, now go burn the boats we came in on. Like, I'd be terrified. Oh, yeah. And but at the same time, like, what better of a way to kind of commit, commit, and also like it's almost inspiring to the people in the sense of like you only have one option now. Yeah, so that option is win, or you're just not going home. So it's like when I think about that in the aspect of like approaching faith, you know, I was telling you that first, that reminded me of it of no one puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God. So for me, it's like my old life is behind me for a reason, and it's behind me because none of it was for God. So it's like if I'm moving towards God, I can't keep going back because it's just gonna keep tainting me in the same way that it was before. So, you know, whether you look at it like a broken bridge or a sunken ship, whichever way it is, like at a certain part in your walk with God, there has to be a separation from you and your old self. So I loved the analogy that he came out with with the whole burning the boats and leading into that because at a certain point we really do have to tear those old bridges down.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Yeah, at some point um we are past the excuse, right? When you first come to Christ, like you're still being sanctified. God's still working that stuff out of you. But once God works that stuff out of you, you gotta burn that bridge. Yeah, you just you gotta walk away from it. When God calls you away from it, you're walking away from it. And it's it's the only good way to live. And it's a way of living in constant worship, of constantly being like, Lord, I trust you. You're number one. I don't I don't know what the outcome's gonna be, but I know I'm not going back. And um speaking of worship, it makes me think of uh I was a made uh made for more made for more. I got I started going out loud and I was like, no, I'm going to my head for this one.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Serenade me with the music not happening.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

You can hear me sing some Monday nights at youth group when Allison Second won't be at you church. Otherwise, I'll leave that singing to my wife.

Comfort In God’s Correction

SPEAKER_04 20:06

I'm glad that you brought up like the not being ignorant anymore, because there's all what is that? I forget which verse it's in, but it's when it talks about uh there was a time where God winked at ignorance. So it's like for me, we've when you reach a certain point, like you are kind of enlightened to the fact that um you know the truth of the gospel, you know you're you're coming to know God more and more and more. And at a certain point, like we can't claim ignorance anymore. Like what Tim was saying, like he didn't create a bunch of babes to remain babes. Like at a certain point, we're not warriors for Christ, like we're not babes anymore. We should be gaining the knowledge and everything else. So you know, we were talking about it with the repentance stuff. We can't come to it with like this ignorant heart where we can just blame it on everybody else, or like there has to be a point where I'm not ignorant of it and I'm at fault. Do I need to repent? Yes, but I can't keep shifting the blame and pretending that I don't know I did something wrong. I definitely know I did it. Oh yeah, but no, that's uh I really liked Marxism, uh Marx, and I like the whole all gas no break. I said Marx's.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Did you just like admit to being a Marxist on the church podcast?

SPEAKER_04 21:22

I totally like pluralized an already plural word.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Oh, that's great. Oh man. You just threw me so far off. I gotta find where I'm talking. Oh, 100% staying in there. What are we gonna talk about?

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Uh did we I don't think we've talked about did we talk about Tim's the humility?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah, I don't want to touch humility. God's still working that one out of me. No, I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

I was I was just about to say that comment alone tells me you need to talk about humility.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Humility. Um, the biggest thing that sticks out to me whenever we talk about humility, and it's probably because it's so common for people to say, but God resists the prideful. And if we look at what we're able to do and things like that, and we take all that credit, that's not good. And Tim points it out in this sermon, and it's one of the big takeaways I had. Humility doesn't mean lowering yourself. Humility doesn't mean thinking less of yourself, or well, I mean, if God wasn't helping me, I wouldn't do that. Well, yeah. If God wasn't helping you, you couldn't do that. If God wasn't helping you, you wouldn't be alive. Right. And so, yes, all of that's coming from God. And so it's not a I'm not good enough. And we kinda we seem to kind of do that, especially when it's like, hey, you guys did a good job. Oh, it wasn't me, it was all Charles. He he worked like crazy, and I just he I he did it all, man. He I couldn't have done without him. That's even that is in my opinion, and I that's a gray area, is like lowering yourself. Like, oh, I didn't do anything, it was all Charles. Like, no, you did something, and so did Charles, and you got this awesome thing. And so when we look at humility with the Lord, it's just placing yourself in the correct position, right? Like, yeah, everybody knows God's number one. That's important to know. We did do some good things, but God did God did better, God did immensely more. And it's not a I didn't do enough. It's God used me and I was willing, and that's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 23:47

See, and I think that's the key right there is that God used me and I was willing. It's can you take credit for the things that you did yes? But I think for me it's the reminder that did I do it yes, but I did it for God and I did it by God. So it's I like I don't know, it's it's such a hard topic to talk about sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Um we kind of branch away when we're how we discussed it and how we portray it. It's a little different than the parable that Tim brought up. Yeah, but I think that parable is super important, and it's another thing that kind of leaves you just picturing that in your mind. Like, what was the tax collector going through? Like, meanwhile, the Pharisee's sitting there, like, Lord, thank you that I'm not like all of these wretched people. I'm amazing, and I do all of these perfect things, and I've nailed it. Like, congrats, dude. Good for you. And then meanwhile, the tax collector's like pounding his chest, God have mercy on me, a sinner. Like, that's it. Like, think about like we know what tax collectors were. They were taking money from their own people, they were hated by everybody, they weren't great, they were objectively not good people most of the time. All the time, I believe. But to have that, like I could just picture it like a wave of understanding on that. Like he's listening, and then he's just like pounding his chest, like, how did I get it so wrong? Please have mercy. Like, I'm not worth it, but if you can find a way to give me some mercy, I'll take every ounce of it I can. And like that's just like, dude, how do we how do we portray ourselves more often? Yeah, like are we saying like I did all of these great things, thank you that I'm not like the other people who won't? Or are we saying, Man, I've messed up a whole lot. Yeah, I might have done some good things and I was willing to do some things, but I'm still broken, I'm still a sinner, and God, I need you to have mercy on me. And God, I need you to work these things out of me. And God, I need you. I just need you.

Burn The Boats Commitment Worship

SPEAKER_04 25:59

Well, and that's I mean, in all the in all the stuff I've watched, whether it be debates or whatever, the thing that scares me the most is when you come across the videos of people talking in a way that they don't believe that they deserve the cross. And I'm like, no, no, no. Like, we deserved it. Oh, we still do. Christ didn't. We deserve that cross. And it's like, it doesn't matter if from today till the end of my life, let's just say I could live a perfect life and I never sin again. It doesn't mean I don't still deserve the cross.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yeah, and like for the record, I think we sometimes get caught up in the cross as in like the whole thing leading out, like Jesus could have died anyway. Yeah. Jesus, that was the way they were killing fulfilled prophecy. That's how Jesus died for our sins. I don't think the method in which Jesus died for our sins is as important as Jesus dying for our sins. Right. And so when if you're listening, you're like, well, I don't deserve to be crucified. Yeah, it's kind of a gruesome thing, and maybe you'd haven't done anything worth being crucified for. But in the eyes of the Lord, do we deserve eternal life with God? No, because we're sinners, we're broken.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

Yeah, we have that's more so my point. I don't I don't mean that everyone should be you know hung up on a crucifixion, but I didn't think you were.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

I just that that popped into my head.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

I'm like, We just as humans, like we do deserve punishment. You know, we none of us have lived a perfect life, all of us have made mistakes way, you know, in ways that you know Christ never would have. So it's like to become in a mindset where you think that no matter what you do, you don't deserve it, like that's scary to me. Yeah, and I've heard many people talk about it in a way where it's like they honestly don't believe that they do, and I'm like, hmm, no, no, no, no. I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

That's me. That is honestly a really slick lie, yeah, that Satan has told them. It's not that bad. I mean, we see it now, like we have the whole pride parade. Like we have this whole thing saying, living in a way that God has told you not to live is something you should be excited for. And you don't deserve the punishment of that. And I'm not saying we as Christians should punish anybody for it. People have free will. It's not, it's our place to love people and to speak truth. That doesn't necessarily mean go yell some of the truth when they're not wanting to hear it. Don't do that, not a great option. But being like, if someone asks you, or if you're close to someone, you have a conversation, sure, share the truth. But we have this this lie has per been perpetuated that we should be so excited and celebrate because you can't tell me who to love. And that's that's a lie. All and it doesn't have to stop there, right? We can have pride in our um in our any type of sin. Any type of sin. I told a really, really funny joke. Yeah, was it dishonoring to God? Probably shouldn't be prideful on that. Yeah, not probably, definitely, but it's um pride and humility, and Tim closes with it, that the parable wasn't about the prayer itself, but it's about our posture before God and how we see ourselves before God. Compared to God, we're all way worse. Infinitely worse. So we don't need to lower ourselves to be humble towards God. We need to look at ourselves and just have an understanding of who we're working for and how immensely better God is than we could ever be. And that doesn't mean we're not doing good things, it just means let's not pretend that we are the ones saving us. Because that's kind of where the Pharisees' prayer was coming from. Like, I'm doing all of these great things because I'm I can obey. And then there's these other wretches over here doing whatever. And God's like, no, what you need to be pointing out is you've still messed up, and when you're talking to me, you gotta remember that.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

Yeah. I know, like just for myself, like just you know, from the perspective of the blue chair, it's not necessarily in line with um the idea behind the parable, but it's just in like my daily walk. Uh, going to school is one of the big ones for me right now. It's like, and I know we've talked about this topic before, but it's no matter how much information or how much learning I get out of going to school or getting a degree, I am just constantly reminding myself to never let it get me to a point where I become one of those people that's like, well, I have a degree, I know more than you. Well, it's the idea behind it. You can have as much knowledge as you want in your brain, but if you're not truly coming at it with like an open heart to God and you know, really relying on Him to reveal the truth behind things to you, and you're not using it in the correct way, then it doesn't really matter. So for me, it's like if I come to you, like I'm super excited because I learned something and I just want to talk about it because I think it's you know, you know, some cool Hebrew word that I learned, whatever. To me, that's fine, but it's the moment I start using my education as a way to make someone else in the faith feel like inferior, it's it's a moot point at that.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yeah.

When Ignorance Is No Excuse

SPEAKER_04 31:51

So it's like I have to remind myself um that that's not a person that I want to become. And um another quick one is what I was telling you earlier, too, like with work, and I know this is a topic we've talked about a bunch of times, but um realizing that I mean it may not be every situation, but a lot of times like you're gonna find yourselves in places like at work where you're criticized about something, or even in your daily walk with a friend or a family member, and realizing that you're not perfect, and we should probably listen to some of these criticisms because who knows if God's the one putting them there to try and expose these things. And a lot of times I feel like our pride gets in the way, and you're like, that's not me, that's not the kind of person I am. And it's like, well, if more than one person's telling you, you should probably uh you should probably listen a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:39

And I just feel like in in today's world where we people rely more on themselves than on God, it's super easy to get into that mindset where you're not taking that criticism, you're not coming into it with a mindset as is God putting this person here on purpose to expose this thing in me that I need to work on, but instead you're like, no, that's not me. I'm not accepting that at all.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Yeah. We have to be willing to listen to the criticism as a Christian. Honestly, Christians should be the best at it. Because if we understand that we're not perfect and we're broken people and that we have a tendency to do wrong inherently, then when someone says, Hey, you sounded really mean and you said that, or you're really hurting my feelings, we should be like, ooh, how can I approach this better? How would what's it how do I do this correctly? Not necessarily they were 100% right. Because I mean, yeah, you can say something imperfectly to somebody and they can take it the wrong way, and that's in there's no way you could say it where they don't, but the thing needs to be said. What's important is that we're saying it or doing it or acting in a way that God has called us to act in certain situations. I mean, like when it was time to flip tables, Jesus did it, and so it's not necessarily making everyone feel comfortable and happy, but it's taking a honest look at the the reviews or the criticism that you get and being aware that they at least need they need to be heard out and you need to do some self-evaluation. And maybe they're wrong, maybe they're right. But if we harden our heart because we've got this posture of I've been my second year of uh Bible school, I know more than you, that's wrong. Yeah, they actually made us read a book at Moody, it's one of my favorite books, it's like a pamphlet book, where it's about the summer after your first year of Bible school, and they've they outline like you go home, you learn a couple big theological words, you start debating your parents, and then you're debating your friends, and then you go up to your pastor and tell him how he was wrong, and this, that, and the other, and you make yourself like a fool, and then you go back to school the second the second year, and you're like learning all the stuff that they were teaching, yeah. And it's like, oh like it is so important that when you when you take in knowledge and God God reveals himself to you, you honor that by how you interact and disseminate that information.

SPEAKER_04 35:30

I think it's yeah, there's like a a clear line where it's no longer edifying or fruitful um the way that you approach certain situations. Like even if let's say you did disagree with something your pastor said because of something you learned, like you have to go to it in like uh with a soft heart and have that conversation and also be willing to be edified in return. Like you might think he's wrong, but he could pull something out of his pocket that proves you wrong, and you gotta be willing to accept it.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

That's why I it's a personal thing. Can't stand any protest.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

I don't know about you, but if I've never been a fan, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

See, I it could be something I agree with. If you're yelling it from the road, I'm just like, have a conversation.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

I think everything has a time and a place, but unfortunately, in in the ones that I've seen, I don't feel like people address them in the right way, and it becomes un I'll use the word again, it's unedifying. When you're out there and you're just shouting things and anger and everything, like I just I don't see a positive outcome most of the time.

Humility Without Self-Hate

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Yeah, and I mean, even the preachers on the sidewalk yelling, I'm like, I prefer, I would and it might just be biased like I'm just I don't like yelling from the sidewalk or I don't like hollering out to the world.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

I just think it's hard to get someone to listen when you're preaching or burn.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

But if you if you go and have that conversation, like, hey man, you want to talk a minute about this? And they could be like, Oh, I disagree with you entirely, but have a conversation, people are far more willing, and that's just a random tidbit of information that has nothing to do with the topic we're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 37:10

But well, I mean it it does and it doesn't, but no, I just it that whole topic though goes back to something you mentioned in yours when you said something about like winning an argument with your spouse or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

So for me, and that counts for online too, by the way. Yeah, if you're like one of those Facebook warriors just dropping a comment and making a bomb, don't do that.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

Yeah, well, I only I only bring the the spouse one up because it's so easy in the household, like let's say you do get into an argument and you think you've won, and you walk away like I can't be wrong, I've got this in the bag, but then all of a sudden, 10 minutes later, God puts a little softening on your heart and you're like, Oh crap, now I gotta go back and say I'm sorry. Because a lot of times, like you can think you won, but how did you present yourself in the argument? Like, did you start yelling? Did you do this? Did you do that? Now you have to go back and you're gonna be like, whether or not I won. I approach that totally wrong. And it's being able to remain humble in that situation and acknowledge the fact that you're wrong and go back to your spouse and say that, and even with your kids or friends or family, you know, there's a lot of times where I walk away like I'm not apologizing for nothing, and then all of a sudden I'm like, nah, I gotta go apologize.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

See, I just want everyone on on listening to know that when you start talking about the like getting the one-liner in your wife and walking away, it was a sermon illustration I used in my repentance sermon. And so I was gonna say, I heard someone wonderful, like a great preacher, use that in a sermon one time. And then you said, It's important that you stay humble. And I was like, Okay, I won't. Okay, fair enough, fair enough.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

But I mean, that did stick out to me though, with with um I mean that kind of goes with all of them the heart, the humility. Um, but I think that's a a good one that we should remind ourselves on a lot because there's been many of times that I've walked away from a disagreement or argument where I was in the mindset that I didn't say anything wrong, I don't need to apologize, but it's usually within 10 to 20 minutes you're like, I did something wrong here.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

You said the right thing wrong.

unknown 39:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

And that's a big swell, big pill to swallow. And usually it's a good indication that there's something going on in your heart. Maybe it's anger that got in, maybe it's bitterness because hey, they keep doing this and it's annoying, and so I'm just going to let them know how annoying it is. And I'm just gonna lay it all out there. They should be aware of this, or they don't, I know they don't care, and they're doing it anyways. And we allow this bitterness and anger to get in our heart, and that's why Ryan finished off with this heart that like all of these things are great, all of these things that God marvels at are so good and so important, but all of it is for naught if we don't get the heart behind it, right? All of it is an act, it's a Ponzi scheme. We're we're robbing Peter to pay Paul, we're gonna be a little bit more, have a little bit more humility today, but our repentance is gonna fail because our heart's not in it. But when we get a heart in it, it works. Tim pointed out one time that it's not the fruit of the spirit. You can't just have one fruit. It's not just like, oh, I'm really good at patience, but I've got no love. Right. Like, that's not how this works. It's the fruits, it's all or nothing. Yeah, you can have a gift, but you have all the fruits.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

Now, with you saying that, because this is a legit question, all fruits, but do you think you grow in them at different paces? So, like, could you grow faster in patience than you do in in the Yeah, and I think I think it can also be I think you can also just have a less hearty fruit.

Criticism Pride And Listening Well

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Right. Like I think you could just in general have a less patience, right? Like you have you you don't have time to wait, you always feel rushed. But I still that still indicates a heart problem. If you are walking in step with the Lord and God is revealing the things that you need to repair, then you're going to be in tune with the fruits and in tune with the Holy Spirit that I need to be patient in here. It's really, really hard for me because that's not how I'm inclined to be. But I need to because God has called me to this. And then you do it. And so whether or not you develop those differently, um, I think there's definitely the debate for sanctification, and um, especially like a new Christian might get. I think new Christians are always great with love, just in general, because they've seen where they've come from. Like if you're an adult who became Christian and you saw where you were and you you've given your life to Christ, like love usually is really, really strong there.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

Not to mention, like coming into it, you that's like the first thing I feel like most people say is like, as soon as I came to Christianity, I just had this abundance of love washed over me. How easy is it to try and mimic the same thing that was overflowed onto you?

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Yeah, and there's also the argument that though it's not necessarily the fruits of the spirit, it's just your natural inclination. Like you might be naturally better at suffering. And that's not the fruits of the spirit. That's just it's like nature over nurture argument. Is it God giving you these abilities because of the fruits of the spirit, or is it just something you already good at beforehand?

SPEAKER_04 42:50

Not that it has anything to do with this, and I don't know why it's stuck in my brain, but I have to get it out before it drives me crazy. The way you were talking about the um the interaction between two people, like something that this person's doing that really drives this one crazy, it really took me back because I haven't finished it yet. I'm almost there. The screw tape letters, like reading that book put a whole new spin on how I see like spiritual warfare now. And I'm like, to to think that like the enemy finds something in like let's say it's you, and there's something you do that it really drives me crazy that you do it, but I just don't say anything about it. He's gonna use that one thing that you do to constantly nag at me to push me over that edge where I just I'm white knuckling it all the time because I I see you doing it constantly. So when I read that, I was I couldn't stop talking to Eric about it. I'm like, this stuff happens daily. I'm like, this puts a whole like different perspective on how I see spiritual warfare now.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Oh, it is Satan is shrewd, yes, very crafty. There is no question that the way in Which we fight spiritual warfare is unfair. Like if we don't have Jesus, spiritual warfare is 100% lopsided one way. If we have Jesus, it's hopsided 100% lopsided 100% the other way. So it's never a fair fight. But we sometimes forget that we've got the weapon.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

And so we we just hide our weapon and then we're like, oh well, this isn't fair. But it's it's Satan is so shrewd.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

I'm sorry, the way you said that was great. We hide our weapon, we're like, oh, it's not fair. Okay. It is fair. The weapon's right there.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah. And so we just need to have have our weapon, but the screw tape letters and C.S. Lewis is one of my favorite authors. All of his stuff is good.

SPEAKER_04 44:48

Like the whole book is so simplistic, but it's like I don't know how he came up with this stuff. Like I'm sitting there reading the interaction between Screw Tape and his nephew, and I'm just like, how where did you like think of this? It's I don't know. It just it blew my mind reading that, and then hearing you say that just kind of tied it in with me. And I'm like, again, it just totally takes me off on a whole new level of like how I look at spiritual warfare now. Sorry, I had to bring it up.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

No, that's fine. We are actually at our our limit right now, and so we're gonna have to call it here in a second, but I think that's a good way to point us back to the heart. We remember our weapon when we have our heart, when we have a heart that is sprinting to God, that we have a heart that wants nothing more than to not just not go to hell. Again, not going to hell is great. But the reason we're a Christian is to have a relationship with the Lord. And if we we don't have that, none of these other qualities we've talked about for the last eight weeks are going to work, are are going to be steady, and we are going to be missing out on so much, and we won't be called to action, and we won't do any of the other things that Pastor Ryan spoke about in his sermon because we've forgotten the most important thing. We've forgotten the heart. And so if you're listening today, make sure that you get that heart alignment good, that heart posture good, and then the rest of the stuff is gonna come. Sanctification isn't an overnight process, and it starts with why are we doing it, who we're doing it for, and how how we're going to do it. And if we do it in a way that is constantly working towards God, the rest of the stuff is going to come. And hopefully, one day God when God talks to you when you get to heaven, he says, You know, I marveled when you were super humble in that era, or I marveled the way you repented. That was awesome. And so that's all we got for you this month. Hopefully, you were uh interested in our insights today. We went on a couple tangents, but I think it was a good one.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

So it was a good one.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

If you want to be on it, go ahead and pull Charles aside and say, Charles, put me on the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 47:12

Yes, we are always looking for people. Um, so yes, anyone interested, let me or Jared know. Jared just said let me know, which means he wants you to bother me. So, which is not a bother.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

I just have like 75 unread texts. And so if you can't.

SPEAKER_04 47:29

Yeah, this is true. Just reach out to me.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

I'm just being realistic, okay? I'm humbling myself in the recruitment process.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

I like what you just did there. You do? I do.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

All right, guys. We love you. We'll talk to you next month, and we will see you on Sunday.