SPEAKER_00: 0:16

Welcome and thanks for joining us on the Blue Chair Podcast, brought to you by Fresh Wind Church. Each month, we discuss the latest sermons from the perspective of the Blue Chairs.

SPEAKER_01: 0:27

Hello and welcome to the Blue Chair Podcast. I am Pastor Jared, and with me as always, we have Charles. What's up? Hey, I didn't have to tell you to say what's up this time.

SPEAKER_02: 0:37

I know. Usually I'm waiting for it.

SPEAKER_01: 0:39

I know, but I got you this time. I trusted you. All right. But to start us off, we have to address the elephant in the room. Um, last month we didn't record. Nope. No, we did not. I wish I had a good reason. Like there was a huge accident and I saved somebody's life or something like that. But really, we remembered a week after that we were supposed to have recorded and uh we didn't do the recording.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03

So I'm gonna blame it on the fact that I was sick, but it probably was not the day the podcast was due.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

So we'll we'll say we were sick. That's what we'll go with. We were sick. But this month we got something special for you. We have with us today Caleb Leakey. Say what's up. What's up? Um, if you do not know Caleb, that is probably understandable. He's actually relatively new to the church. He's been coming here two, three months.

SPEAKER_05: 1:28

About a month now, actually.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29

About a month. Yeah. Oh, wow. I thought he's been here a whole lot longer. But Caleb is kind of a child prodigy in my eyes. He's 17. He has graduated from high school already, but he still has one more year of eligibility with the youth group. So we're like, you know what? You can come hang out with us. But he has honestly impressed me with um taking notes, being at church on Sunday morning and taking notes. I I see him in there doing that, um, volunteering for pretty much everything he can. And so when me and Charles were discussing who we could bring on the Blue Chair Podcast, who's unique, who we haven't had on before, Caleb's name came up, and so we figured he'd do he'd do great on here, and I'm sure he will. But this this episode, we're gonna talk about the growth series. Um, we've all acknowledged and did you say grow or gross? Grow. All right, it was a gross series, it was just disgusting through and through the grow series, thank you. Um, where Pastor Tim and Pastor Ryan just thumped us on the head and challenged us left and right. There was no um, it was not sunshine and rainbows. We were discussing that prior to starting the recording, that there was uh it was a little bit ambitious. KLB mentioned it, that it was it's not something pastors typically do.

SPEAKER_05: 2:50

Nope. They usually a lot of pastors usually are like, hey, you know, this is the way of heaven, God loves you, you know, has mercy on you, which is all true, but they never want to actually address your sins, and that's uh to me a big issue.

SPEAKER_01: 3:05

So in one month, Pastor Tim and Ryan have uh impressed Caleb, and that's probably a hard feat because he seems like he's really smart. Yeah. But this series, um what we addressed is the areas of our life that we need to grow, and in 1 Peter, uh where we are called to rid ourselves of some things, and they are addressed in 1 Peter, and those things are malice, envy, slander, deceit, and hypocrisy. And we all struggle with all of those at different times in our life. We might be better at one, right? We might be pretty good, and we may have had someone influence who is influence us who is a hypocrite, and you've sworn that off, and you're really good at not being a hip a hypocrite. But there's probably an area in your life where you might start talking and then you've said stuff and you're like, wait a minute, that's I've just sat here slandering this person for 10 minutes, and I didn't mean to. These are some of these things are pretty easy to fall into. Envy, like we're Thanksgiving. Brian nailed it with that. Where we're so we're so thankful, yeah. And then we're just gonna go buy everything we can. Just no, no holds barred. There's a new iPhone out, we need it, and we need it cheaper than the next person. Yeah, and so this series is one that regardless of who you are, pastor, layperson, man, woman, child, adult, whatever, you're finding yourself convicted by this series and called to live a better life because our goal here is to grow closer to God. And if these things are keeping us from growing to God, we need to address them. And so, without further ado, without me rambling anymore, Charles, get us started with the first point. What do you want to talk about? Start off.

SPEAKER_02: 4:54

Um, honestly, looking through my looking through my notes again here, I think one for me, um, it was the I think it was the fourth one in the series about slander. And I know Tim got into it a lot deeper, but you know, this is something me and him talked about when I did the ministry 101 class. And even talking about, you know, going to school for chaplaincy is realizing that you're now gonna be looked at in a different light. And not that, you know, everybody shouldn't keep slander from their mouth, but even people moving into ministry, you know, even on a on another level really have to pay attention to that. And I think it's being exposed more in my life in general, just because it's it's so easy to think you're just having a can a casual conversation about somebody and how sideways it can go really fast, and being able to pick up on that. Um, I know it's just it's something for me that I've been convicted on it more and more recently. And when I find myself in those conversations, for me it it's it's a it starts to become uncomfortable where I don't want to be involved with it anymore. And I'm I've personally been trying to point it out even to others in the middle of the conversation, like probably shouldn't be talking about this. Yeah, but it's for me it's it's a hard one because I feel like this is something for the longest time we've all been so comfortable with that we don't understand the damage that it's really doing, not even just in our conversation, but if it gets back to that person or to the wrong people, then you you can ruin someone's whole life just by saying the wrong things.

SPEAKER_01: 6:32

So and I think it's important to note that when we're talking about slander, there's there's the understanding that slander is things that are false or embellished, right? We have um we start talking about someone and we enhance the story to make them seem like more of the bad guy, but I think it's important, like in this context, it doesn't need to be like the true sense of the form, it could just be you're talking about somebody, you're running your mouth, and they're unaware of it, and you haven't addressed it with them, and it is you're it's unproductive, and that's just going to hurt relationships. Ryan talks about your influence bucket. Caleb, if you haven't heard Ryan has a great analogy of an influence bucket, I think Tim taught it to him where we all have an influence bucket and we're slowly adding influence to it, right? Every time you do something good, every time you hold the door open, every time you grade them, every time you remember their birthday, we're adding influence. But when we get caught slandering and running our mouth, and even if we're just so frustrated and we're blown off steam, if that gets out, if people talk about that, if they walk up behind you, you're just stabbing the bottom of your influence by it. And all that influence you had is gone. And it's really hard to patch that up and refill it. And we as Christians need to have influence, we need to have people believing, and we need to we need people, we need to be the person that people believe we are, but we need people to believe that we are looking out for them and that if we have an issue, we're gonna go address it and have that conversation, even if it's a hard conversation, and slander just ruins all of that.

SPEAKER_02: 8:12

Well, and I like that you brought up that it's not just twisting the truth either, because I'm I made a note for myself that to me it's like slander isn't just lying or twisting the truth. Um, the quote that I I don't remember if it was Tim or Ryan that told you, I think it was Tim, that everything said should be true, but not everything true should be said. And based on what you told me, like I look at slander not just as lying, but you're harming someone with speech that God didn't tell you to share. So that goes back to the whole everything said should be true, but not everything true should be shed. So just because someone comes to you with something, whether it's true or not, like you don't if you were never told to go forth with that information, then why are you? You know, that could be information that wasn't meant to be shared to the world or whatever the situation may be. But I don't know. I I these little you know multi-line quoters that they give you, I like them. I'm stashing them in my memory bank.

SPEAKER_01: 9:05

They're good ones. All right, Caleb, what do you got on this?

SPEAKER_05: 9:07

Yeah, um it excuse me. But yes, for like if someone's talking and gossiping and slandering somebody and needs to stop with you, like um oh shoot, it just left my mind. But basically, like, don't keep the train going, like end it with you. If if you know that it's hurting someone's reputation, or you know, it's not even meant to be out there, just like stop, let it go, forget about it, even.

SPEAKER_01: 9:36

I think Tim even said it in the sermon where he says, uh, am I supposed to be hearing this? Then I don't want to hear it.

SPEAKER_05: 9:43

Yep, that's what I was remembering, and then I forgot.

SPEAKER_01: 9:46

Tim, Tim is great at that. See, that was one thing that I've talked to Ryan about it because I've noticed that I will start talking and like genuinely, and it's weird, I have no intention of sharing anything I'm not. So a lot of times I just work really hard to not talk very much because there's been there's been moments when I'm just talking and then I'm just talking about stuff that I'm not supposed to be talking about. Whoopsies. Yeah, and I'm like, all right, I didn't say any of that to you. And I've gotten significantly better for the record. It was mostly when I was younger, just so I'm not spilling everybody's secrets, but there was one time Tim, middle of my middle of me talking, he's like, eh, we're done talking, and I'm just like, thank you. Five minutes later, I was like, I'm an idiot, and it was Tim's great at that. Props to Tim. It is important to end that with you though, and it takes it takes some courage, courage, some wisdom. Um, some of those things, like the good qualities we need to kind of be be self-aware of what's happening here. And sometimes it's easier when someone else is doing it. Um, but especially when it's juicy. I mean, look at us, look at we have so many different sayings about it, like spill the tea, like what's the what's the word, what uh what's the skinny, like all that. We have so many different words for it because it's you get on the edge of your seat, like you're just so intrigued by what's happening, getting into the know without them knowing that you're in the know. That we want it's it's dopamine.

SPEAKER_02: 11:24

Yeah, yeah. I actually I can't remember if it was Tim Orion that talked about it because they mentioned the whole thing you see something happen on the highway or whatever, and you want to get off the exit ramp just to go see what it was. And I was like, I actually laughed a little bit inside because there's been a part of me that's wanted to do it. I'm like, so when he said that, I laughed. But this whole topic, I was even talking to Eric about the other day because I think one of the verses that strikes me the most in terms of slander is Proverbs 18. I think it's verse 21 that says, Death and life are in the power of the tongue. So it's even just outside of some of the simple stuff, you know. One of the things I remind myself is like spiritually, I can speak death into somebody if I'm saying the wrong thing. So just remembering that there is power in the tongue.

SPEAKER_01: 12:08

Yeah, and that that branches out past slander. Yeah, like are you just mean? Yeah, are you cruel? Are you like, I mean, you could be right, but you can also just be annoying. Yeah, it's you can Are you trying to say something to me? Yeah, I'm looking right at you. Like you can be right, but you can be annoying. Like you could be right and you're mean. Have you ever had anybody tell you to tell you the right thing in the worst possible way?

SPEAKER_02: 12:34

Oh, yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 12:36

Does anybody at this table want to listen to that advice?

SPEAKER_02: 12:39

No, I don't. I'll see you next week. Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 12:43

It's like you know you're shooting yourself in the foot at that point because you know what they said was right, but you're just so annoyed of how they said it that you're like, you know what? I'm gonna do it anyway. Yep, it's just what I'm gonna do. Oh man. It is we've moved past slander, I think, a little bit at this point. But we're just talking about the what we say as Christians, how we say it as Christians, is so important.

SPEAKER_05: 13:12

And it and it doesn't even matter if you're talking directly to somebody. I was at uh work today and the guy was getting his car, but he's like, F this, f that. I'm like, dang, bro, you don't have to do all that. Again, again, you're not talking to anybody specifically, but even those who are just generally around you, it matters what you say.

SPEAKER_01: 13:29

It does. Uh, it's we need to guard our tongue. Tim has a note in here. He talked about Ephesians 4 29. No foul language should come from your mouth, but only what is good for building up someone in need, so that it gives grace to those who hear. That's a perfect point. If you're getting in your car, you're angry, you're throwing out uh cuss words, you are whatever, right? You're just you're angry and you're by yourself and you're muttering them to yourself. There's no one around, your kids aren't listening, your your parents don't hear you. Are other people? Is yourself hearing it? Is yourself hearing? Is God hearing it?

SPEAKER_02: 14:09

I was just about to say, are you ever truly alone?

SPEAKER_01: 14:12

Like, are you when you allow yourself, when you allow your tongue, when you allow the situation at hand to consume you so much that you are out of control of your own speech, you have given up all ability to draw closer to God. Maybe it's for that moment, maybe it's for the next hour, maybe it's for an extended period of time because you've screwed you've screwed up bad. But when we have that control, when we have the ability to say, like, I'm really frustrated. So I'm just gonna choose to keep quiet and I'm gonna turn on some force frank in the car. Just the poppy Christian that is just gonna get me in a happy mood so I can stop thinking about the thing that uh is just driving me up a wall. We have regained that control. We have regained our ability to speak and to have wisdom and to because emotions are normal. We need to address that. Emotions, God gave us all the emotions, especially the emotions when we're super angry.

SPEAKER_02: 15:13

Yeah, but what do we do with those emotions?

SPEAKER_01: 15:16

Exactly. Exactly. And if we allow slander, if we allow our tongue to get loose, we're gonna ultimately for myself too, and I find myself in those moments.

SPEAKER_02: 15:28

I used to years and years ago, I put way too much faith in myself to be able to regulate that versus laying it down to him. And I think the the sooner I went to him with it versus trusting in myself, the the more I can see myself overcoming them in those situations. I'm still not perfect, I still have my outbursts every now and then, but it's definitely a lot easier when you stop putting trust and faith in yourself more than you are, God.

SPEAKER_01: 16:01

I agree. Let's talk about envy.

SPEAKER_05: 16:05

Juicy topic.

SPEAKER_01: 16:07

Juicy. Envy is a difficult one. Envy, I think envy is so difficult because you're not always wrong. You're not. If you get passed up for the promotion and someone else gets it, and maybe they don't deserve it, which is on paper, they're not the most deserving of it, and you've worked the overtime, you've got maybe the degree, you've done all the all the things you're supposed to do, and you don't get it, and you allow envy to start producing, and you allowed it to fester. One, we're gonna hit the next, we're gonna hit the next topic. If we allow it to fester enough, it's gonna turn to malice. But that envy is going to prevent us from seeing what God is doing in our lives. All the good things that God is doing in our lives. Yes, we didn't get that thing. We didn't get the we didn't get the promotion. We didn't get the job we wanted. But why is that what do we we don't know everything that's going to happen if we had that position. There's been a thousand jobs that I've been passed up on. There's been a thousand ways that I could have made more money, done different things, but what am I trading in for that?

SPEAKER_02: 17:24

Yeah, I was reading uh a quote earlier that really made me stop and think because it was uh about Saul and David and how they're sitting at the feast, and Saul can't even look at the blessings he's been giving. All he does is stare at David's plate. So I think about my own life and I'm like, I have all these blessings that God's put before me. And how many times do we catch ourselves looking at someone else and saying, Man, I really wish I had that, versus just paying attention to what's already been given to you and being thankful and everything for that. But we're we're so far into this, like envious of everybody else. I want the bigger truck. Oh, so-and-so got the how did he get the bigger truck and I still got this little truck? But it's when I read that about Saul and David, it really made me think about looking at what God's given me and the grace that I already see in my life from him instead of looking at everybody else's life.

SPEAKER_01: 18:17

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 18:18

Yeah, I mean, even like envy can especially like hurt others, not just yourself, because you're gonna start chasing those things and what other people have, and you're gonna end up leaving your family and your friends in the dust.

SPEAKER_01: 18:34

You can. You can. Um a great topic. I I remember probably I don't know, we've been married nine years, so probably year one or two of our marriage. I noticed I got married when I was married to Alice when I was 19. Best decision, one of the best decisions I've ever made. About two years in, it's like we're paying, we're doing grown-up things. We bought a house.

SPEAKER_02: 19:05

We're doing grown-up things. Yeah, like how you explain stuff sometimes.

SPEAKER_01: 19:09

We're like 20 or 21. And so I'm doing grown-up things. I bought a house, I'm working in a factory, I'm working at the church, I'm doing all of these things. You know what I don't have? The time to go out and hang out uptown Amherst. I don't have the time to go and hang out with all the buddies, I don't have the the the funds to go buy a motorcycle or do these different things that sound super cool and I really want to do, or um go to the gym every day and so I can look really great and have muscles that I would probably have given up on at this point, like just contentment with I'm okay now. Uh, but I'd see all those things that everyone else had, and I'm like, there was always uh just a little bit just in the back of my mind every once in a while, and I've talked to Allison about this, so she's aware she won't kill me. That it's like I got married at 19. I did I cash out too quick? Like, and it was it never festered, it never got big, but it would always just like poke. It was like Satan just pushing, like trying to plant the seed. And I just struggle with it left and right. And now we're 28, and I'm comparing my life to the lives of um not always, but like I'd see something on Instagram or Facebook or something of people my age. And some of the guys that I would look at and I'm like, man, you had it all when you were 21. And now the bank's come to collect. And you're struggling. You're really struggling. And I see those things. I'm like, thank God that I was able to push back on that envy. That I wasn't able to allow that to fester and to me throw something away that could have been so unrealistic. Because, like you said, envy doesn't stop. I think Ryan points out that it's a bottomless pit. There's no stopping it. Once you allow it to get a hold of you and you allow that to fester, it's going to become something where you just want more. You just want more and more and more and more and more. Maybe I stretch the family and I buy the motorcycle or the new thing that I want right now and get us in a little bit of debt. And it's totally fine. I mean, we just took financial peace and we saw some of the situations where people have gotten themselves into because they wanted them more. That could have ruined my marriage. That could have put us in a situation that it's hard to fix.

SPEAKER_03: 21:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:19

And I was able to kind of push back on that, thank God, because a lot of the situations where I'm seeing now where I've people that I was silly and compared myself to, I am happy that I'm not in some of those same situations. That I'm not, that I, that I didn't go hang out uptown anywhere. So I've got countless people that I know who have gotten themselves hanging out uptown too much, gotten themselves drinking too much, gotten themselves getting into harder things, and they end up overdosing.

SPEAKER_03: 21:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 21:48

And when we see on Instagram or Facebook the life that looks perfect and they're having all kinds of fun, we think it's all sunshine and rainbows.

SPEAKER_02: 21:57

There's always something.

unknown: 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:59

There's always another story.

SPEAKER_01: 22:00

Oh yeah. But without the discipline, it's all different. There's so much that can go wrong. And so one of the things that I've noticed that I was envious about was that that I had that discipline and I didn't have that freedom. Because when you're disciplined, you inevitably give up some freedom and you give up other choices. You only have so much time in the day. And man, I don't know. I'm ranting at this point. Someone cut me off.

SPEAKER_02: 22:29

Yeah, what about you? I want to hear from the younger generation. What are you guys envious about nowadays?

SPEAKER_05: 22:33

Well, I'm not too into what my most of my generation is into, but from what I've seen, a lot of them are still like envious about, you know, who's got the best looking Fortnite skin or who's who got the most kills on on the games or who's got the best, you know, uh shoes, because they still do that. Not not like they're used to, but they still do that. Um who's got the most talent, I think, is especially with football um going on. And it's like so there's this never-ending comparison just with each other from you know online playing on games to sports to you know, even even in band, you know, like man, if I could play the trumpet like you could, or if you know, if I could play those, like instead of being like, Man, God gave me the skills that I have, and it's like it's just it's gonna ruin you if you don't catch it because you're too focused on what others have and you're blinded in the present day.

SPEAKER_01: 23:36

I think I liked where you said using the skills that God gave you. More often than not, we look at um we can be so envious of spiritual gifts. Someone can do something that's more, I don't know, like in the front of the church, more visible to the church. And people want that. Like, man, I'm I'm if you if you guys didn't know, I am an atrocious singer. All right, I'm not good.

SPEAKER_02: 24:04

I mean, I can see that.

SPEAKER_01: 24:05

No, yeah, it's it's not great. One time we sang happy birthday, and I was new at the church. I was here like two or three weeks, and Ryan just leans over and goes, Wow, you chose a different key, did you, Jared? And I'm like, I don't even know what a key is. Yeah, you talked about that at youth group. Yeah, oh man, it was so bad. But you see someone like Teresa who's a wonderful singer, and you're like, Man, I wish I could sing like that. I wish I could do half of that, playing the guitar and singing, doing all those things. That's so awesome. And when we see these, like when we get stuck in that where we're just like, I wish I had that spiritual gift, or I wish I could serve the church in that way. We completely miss out on the verse that tells us that there's different parts of the body. And without if the eye can't, if the eye doesn't choose, it doesn't want to see, then we're blind.

SPEAKER_03: 24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:52

And clearly I'm paraphrasing, but uh we miss out on what we bring to the church. Maybe you can't sing, maybe you're like me, but man, you can hang out and have some fun with youth group. And luckily, you marry a wife who can sing really, really well, and she'll she'll lead worship for you. There's God has a plan for us in our lives based on the gifts that He's given us. And if we're so obsessed with someone else's gift and we allow that envy to grow and we're pushing so hard to do that thing, we're gonna miss out what God really wants us to do.

SPEAKER_02: 25:22

Yeah, I'm actually extremely grateful that God has exposed my weaknesses early enough that I don't I know with 100% certainty that like standing up on that stage every day is not the gift I was given. Like I know the field I'm going into will put me in the spotlight in certain situations where I am kind of in the forefront, but that's not an everyday thing. And I can acknowledge the fact that I was not built to be the one on stage every day, and I'm okay with that because I get uncomfortable with certain situations very quickly. Yeah, and I I think uh yeah, it's it definitely becomes easier as you can acknowledge that you're not going to have the same gifts as everybody else.

SPEAKER_01: 26:03

Oh, yeah. Let's talk about everyone's favorite topic: malice. I hate you.

SPEAKER_05: 26:12

I'm joking.

SPEAKER_01: 26:13

Goodness, came right up the rip. All right, so malice. Tim kind of makes a good point that it's not just not being someone's biggest fan, right? As Christians, we're allowed to be like, you know, I love that person, I want the best for him, but like we're not best friends, just in general, right? It's not that we don't get along, it's just that we're not besties. We're that's perfectly acceptable thing. Malice is disliking somebody and wishing they get what they deserve or wishing ill on them. And there's different scales with like everything else, but malice is something that will just push us as far away from God as we can get.

SPEAKER_02: 27:06

Yeah, it uh can become toxic really quick. I think it's you're you're on a slippery slope once you start assuming that God needs your help judging anybody. So it's uh I don't know. It and it it really does suck because it is one of those things where it's like you could be in a situation and it's not even like you went into it with the intention to be that way. It's like that that dark little quiet whisper in the back of your head telling you that you really hope they get what's coming to them, or or whatever else. And it's not something that you like I said, it's not like you went into the conversation wanting that to happen, but it it's so easy for it to creep in in the back of your mind. But it's also to me, it's that like I said, it's that slippery slope, just assuming that we're equalizing ourselves with God when we start casting judgment on people.

SPEAKER_05: 27:55

I actually caught myself the other day with that. I was playing a game on Xbox actually, and uh this kid was basically like you know, angry that we weren't playing the game right. And I was like, I shouldn't even bother with it, I should have just said whatever and let it go. But I budged in, I was like, I'm sorry I don't spend all this time on Xbox like you do, and then it just it went off from there. But after the fact I realized I was like, Man, what what was the point of getting angry at that for? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 28:25

If that's your version of angry, I'm I'm sorry. It intimidated me there for a second.

SPEAKER_05: 28:33

I've I've gotten a lot more angry at other things, but that was just a recent one.

SPEAKER_02: 28:37

No, and I get it. I mean it's and it it's it's hard when you don't realize it till afterwards, too, because then it kind of eats away at you that you know you did it, and a part of you wants to, you know, make amends for it or whatever. I mean, depending on the situation, I don't know. It's this is a hard topic.

SPEAKER_01: 28:57

Well, I think when we talk about malice, we're gonna talk about everyone's favorite topic. Politics.

SPEAKER_02: 29:04

I don't want to talk about that.

SPEAKER_01: 29:05

Everybody just clicked off that topic. I know everybody's everyone just decided favorite topic. I think politics is where we as people in general, like not even just Americans, people. I think America is a great example, but people hold the most malice you can imagine when it comes to politics.

SPEAKER_05: 29:27

Yeah, like all sides, all sides, all sides, not just Republicans, not just Democrats, all sides.

SPEAKER_01: 29:32

The crazy things that people said about Joe Biden and the crazy things people say about Donald Trump, and not just maybe what they did, or maybe what you believe they did, but like just the unjust not constructive, just hateful things. And it's like, look, dude, you don't have to agree with them. You don't have to think they have good intentions. You could think that they should not be president, or they should not be the senator, or they should not have won whatever race. But we have become so obsessed with politics and just so toxic. I know it's overused, but that's really what it is. We've it's like the old veggie tales, where it's the envy root that has grown into a massive weed and it is just consuming us that we can't think straight.

SPEAKER_03: 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 30:26

And then what happens when we have the opportunity to wrong the other side? We're gonna take that in a heartbeat. We're gonna throw our our character right out the window because you know they're gonna do it, and we gotta we have to get up first. Like we have to get above them. And it's it just leads to chaos.

SPEAKER_02: 30:48

I liked what um I can't remember what class it was in, but Tim talked about uh it was less about malice, but I mean the whole act of you know, if some if someone does wrong by you having true forgiveness. Um, and when I think about malice too, I also think about releasing people in terms of forgiveness because the way Tim explained it was like you're in a rowboat, but you have a motor that's going in reverse, so you're sitting there trying to row forward and all you're doing is going backwards until you give out that true forgiveness, because it's just weighing you down. You have all this stuff piled on you that eventually leads into malice. Um, but until you give out that true forgiveness where you no longer hold, you know, debt on somebody, um, ultimately you're not going to move forward in your faith, you're not gonna move forward in your walk because you're you're holding all this baggage in that just needs to be released. And even I related to that, you know, with um events in my life where I just refused to forgive certain people, and it just built up and I was angry all the time, and I was just wishing that you know they would get what they gave me, and ultimately I was stagnant, like I wasn't moving forward, I was just drifting farther and farther back until I could actually you know release them of that debt that I was holding.

SPEAKER_01: 32:05

Yeah, and it's it's important that like we say you can't move forward until you get rid of malice. The reason we we say that and the reason it's true is because if anyone has the right to malice, it's God. Like we have all done terrible things, just completely disobeyed God in a million different ways. And if there's anyone to say, like, you know what, you've gotten what you deserve, have fun in hell. It's God. Yeah, no question asked. And so when we have decided that we need to be uh how do I want to word this, that that wrong needs to be righted, and we're not okay, we're not content until it has been. Yet we're gonna go to the creator of the universe who has every right to have malice but has chosen to have none. How can we reflect him? Those are two diametrically opposed lives trying to be have like communion, trying to have a relationship. It doesn't work. We will always put up a wall when God says, Hey, you need to forgive like I forgive. And you're like, No, that should not have happened. That person was mean, that parent was mean, that that ex was mean, they did that, they hurt me, and I refuse to let it go. And I want bad things to happen to them because of it. And honestly, that's a scary place to be.

SPEAKER_05: 33:39

It is because it talks about, you know, if you don't forgive your debtors, God won't forgive you, and that's really scary when when you think about it.

SPEAKER_01: 33:47

It is it is hard to forgive somebody when you are right.

SPEAKER_05: 33:57

It is for sure. Uh and I've had it, you know, in plenty of times in my my life, especially with an ex. It's like I'm right, but I was like, you know what, I just I need to let it go.

SPEAKER_01: 34:07

Yeah. When we have when we have people who have hurt us, and we are justified, just objectively justified to feel hurt and to have um to want there to be how do I how do I wear this? That we're we're justified in our hurt, and then we take it to a step far and we want it to be even, we want to settle that score, it doesn't lead to anywhere. Especially like I look, I think of like parents who have wronged us. And there's there's sliding scales, right? Like just and objectively, we need to point out I say this to the youth all the time there's situations that you can forgive, but you need to create distance still, right? There's having boundaries is good. We don't just let people have a full, full scale, whatever they want from us anytime they want. If they're hurting us in any way, we need to be protected and we need that, we need that distance. But when we're adults and we're mad at a parent who was a crappy parent, we're we're preventing ourselves from drawing closer to God, and that's the truth, and it's hard. And this is coming from somebody who has struggled with that same area in his life, and so I say that with a with an understanding of the situation, all right. Um but we need to have forgiveness, we need to be able to see that hey, what happened is wrong, objectively wrong. But I want to draw closer to God, and if I refuse to be more like God in this area of my life, I'm always going to stunt my growth to God. And we have to choose to draw closer to God as Christians. Christian means little Jesus. If we're gonna be little Jesus running around this earth, yeah, we have to be like God.

SPEAKER_02: 36:05

And uh oh, sorry, I didn't know you were.

SPEAKER_01: 36:08

I'm ranting, I'm on my pedestal.

SPEAKER_02: 36:10

I just wanted to piggyback off uh what he said too is that um what's that verse to lay your gift at the altar and go and give forgiveness to your brother before you can come back? And I think about you know what you were just talking on too is like going through those moments, actually, some with my parents, is how can I bring a gift or even come to God and say that I'm doing it in a loving heart if I have hate and resentment and anger, whatever, towards a brother, because how can I be in a true loving heart to God if all that stuff's residing in there? Like I have to let that stuff go before I can fully surrender that to God.

SPEAKER_01: 36:52

And that's the point that we're making that it seems like you're gonna tell yourself if you're if you're somebody struggling with malice, if you're someone who is living, coming to church, doing all the right things, but you have malice embedded deep in your heart. God doesn't want a double life. God wants you. And that doesn't mean God gets you when you are choosing to be happy and you're ignoring the fact that that thing happened or that you you really want that person to suffer. You're living a double life at that point. God wants you and the genuine you, God knows you, every side of you that you think you're hiding, God's aware of it.

SPEAKER_02: 37:30

That's a great segue into deceit and hypocrisy. All right, let's go there then.

SPEAKER_01: 37:35

You're like Jared, you're ranked in move over. Deceit and hypocrisy, take us off.

SPEAKER_02: 37:40

How about you?

SPEAKER_05: 37:41

You want to take us off on this one? Let's do it. So the deceit and hypocrisy, um, honestly, we we do it every day. Uh, if we're honest with ourselves, whether you know it's towards others or even towards ourselves. Like, oh, I'm not that bad. You just deceived yourself into that. But the the devil's very good at deceiving you, and we need to put up the shields and put on the armor of God for the lies that he's gonna throw at us each day, you know, from our workplace to at home to our relationships. I mean, relationships have been destroyed because of deception.

SPEAKER_02: 38:20

There was a quote I read earlier that made me think of how often do we protect our image over our integrity? And like with that deceit and everything, it's so easy to to twist things around to make people try to view you in a different light than than how you're actually behaving. Um and there was another one that said deceit hides sin from people, but hypocrisy hides sin from yourself. So it's I don't know, there's it there it you can go so deep with this conversation too. Um but it's I agree with him, you know, it's it's so easy for this to creep into your daily life. Um and before I was like super comfortable, I let the fear of the world stop me from openly expressing my faith. Um, so a lot of times, you know, I wouldn't even talk about it. Whereas now, you know, I'll pull out the Bible in the middle of work, I don't care anymore. But I I don't know, tag it from me because I'm gonna ramble on here. Fair enough. I'm not forming good sentences at the moment.

SPEAKER_01: 39:29

What I really liked, Ryan saying well, I can't form a sentence either, evidently.

SPEAKER_02: 39:34

We're gonna ping pong it.

SPEAKER_01: 39:35

What I really liked that Ryan said was that deceit is the lie you live and hypocrisy is the mask you wear. Deceit is deceiving yourself, deceiving others, pretending that something is what it isn't, right? Hey, did you uh take the trash out uh yet? Yeah, I took it out. And then you have five minutes before your wife gets home and you're grabbing all the trash to run it outside because you didn't, but you can't let her know that you just Lied to her because really you forgot or you weren't paying attention when she talked to you. And hypocrisy is the like going on about how something's so wrong and then you're doing it behind closed doors. Both of them are going to destroy relationships because both of them destroy anyone's idea of who you are. Or they give them you're actually showing the real who you are when you're caught in it. But you are you're taking away any trust that someone would have in you. And if someone cannot trust you as a person to say what to believe what you're saying or to listen to what you're saying, because a lot a lot when we think about hypocrisy, right? All Christians are hypocrites. This is what I hear day in and day out.

SPEAKER_02: 40:49

Yeah, it's like one of the most common phrases you hear anywhere.

SPEAKER_01: 40:52

Don't do this thing, don't do this thing, don't do this thing, and then we find out these people are doing these things. Now I'm not necessarily on that bandwagon and I don't excuse it, but people are broken. Christians are also broken. They can think something doing something is objectively wrong, but still, oh crap, I screwed up and I did that thing. That's not what we're talking about here. What we're talking about is the the lifestyle. Yes, the lifestyle of it. When you have just re submitted yourself to this sin, but you're gonna stand on the pedestal and point it out everyone else's life. If you're gonna yell at everybody for having envy, but man, deep down you've got some serious envy. Yeah. And it is you take away all the influence you have, all the ability you have for people to listen to you. And that's not what life is all about, but it makes it so you can't have relationships with people because they don't know who you are. Um you look like you're gonna say something, Caleb.

SPEAKER_05: 41:53

I think I was right.

SPEAKER_01: 41:54

Oh, ran away. Um we don't have too much longer here. Does anybody have any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_05: 42:04

When is the next series like this?

SPEAKER_01: 42:07

Ryan, you heard it here first. We need another one. I think we can end with this. This sermon series was a doozy. If you came to one of them, or if you came to all of them, or you've listened online, you have it is the fire hose trying to drink from a fire hose. And so there might be something in here that the Holy Spirit's convicting you on, and there might be something in here the Holy Spirit's like, hey, you need to cut this out. And that means cut that out. But there's also grace, and you might struggle with something. I know some people they genuinely struggle with saying too much. I've said it myself that I'll start talking and then I might put myself in a situation where I'm like, I'm just gonna stop talking now. And it is there is grace in it. And so with this thing and with a sermon series like this, yes, no question about it. Everything was that was said is true, and you gotta submit your life to Christ and follow all these things. But also give yourself grace. Do better every day. You're still in your flesh. You're still in your flesh. So do better every day. Catch yourself, go and apologize. Do you know how do you know how much have you ever had had someone come up to you and say, you know what? I actually lied to you earlier and I felt really bad about it, and I wanted to address it. That means so much to people. Like it, it genuinely does to be like, hey, I want to, I want to correct myself. I was wrong. I'm really, really sorry. You asked me if I took the trash out, but I totally forgot you were saying that. I was doing something, I wasn't giving you the attention you deserved. But I got all the trash now. But I had lied to you when you called me on the phone, and I told you I took out the trash, but I did it before you got home. You might get yelled at, you might be like, Why would you lie to me? And you can have that conversation, but you're gonna screw up. Luckily, we have a God who is never screwed up. We've got a God who loves us and has died for our sins and wants to have a relationship with us. And so we need to choose to grow. When when you're feeling malice, hey, I've chosen to forgive that person. I just need to remind myself, God, help me out here, please, and move forward with your day. And it's it's gonna creep up on you. One of the things that Tim said in the malice sermon, which applies to all of these, is that one of the ways that we have malice is because Satan pushes it on us. Satan's gonna push us to have some envy. Satan's gonna push us to say, do you really want to tell the truth here? Satan's gonna do all of that. We're still in the flesh, we're still at war. Give yourself grace, draw closer to God, walk with God, read your Bible, practice your spiritual disciplines, and these things become significantly easier. But if you're at a point in your life where you're not quite there yet, keep growing, keep coming to the church, take how to eat an elephant, one bite at a time, take a walk, keep going, do what you're supposed to do. Have you not heard that before?

SPEAKER_02: 45:21

An elephant out of all animal animals. I just really liked his reaction to that.

SPEAKER_01: 45:25

Caleb just rolled his eyes and laughed off Mike because he thought I was so crazy. That is a common saying, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_05: 45:31

I've never heard that. You've never heard that. But an elephant out of all animals because it's big. I mean, I get it, but like an elephant elephant.

SPEAKER_01: 45:39

No one eats an elephant. I don't know, maybe people do, but it's like you look at this feat that seems so massive and so difficult to do. How do you do it? One step at a time, one bite at a time. You just move forward a little bit every day. That's my point here. I'm sorry I've got old people sayings, evidently.

SPEAKER_03: 45:55

I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 45:57

All right, though.

SPEAKER_02: 45:58

I will before you do a full close here and and end it.

SPEAKER_01: 46:01

I for myself that was a great point to stop on, by the way. I just nailed that, and you're like, let me say more.

SPEAKER_02: 46:06

I I did have one challenge for myself, and if anyone else, you know, it tugs on them to do it. But I had in here to find one truth that I fear to say out loud. And whether it be I need to take it to that person or to God, I need to do that. No, keep in mind because I think that really does tie in with all of these in one way or another. So I'm just saying, this is me. You know, it's a challenge for myself. If anyone else likes it, feel free to do it.

SPEAKER_01: 46:36

Keep in mind everything you say needs to be true, but not everything true needs to be said.

SPEAKER_02: 46:40

Yes, we already talked about that.

SPEAKER_01: 46:42

Yes, don't go tell your wife that that dress actually looked terrible on her a week after you told her it looked good. It's not going to be productive.

SPEAKER_02: 46:50

Yeah, not at all.

SPEAKER_01: 46:51

All right, that's not the lie we're talking about here. Don't lie. Be honest with your wife as well. I'm not saying lie to your wife either. Goodness gracious, I'm just digging myself a hole, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 47:00

Do you know how you avoid that? You just tell your wife, don't put me in that situation. That's how you avoid that.

SPEAKER_01: 47:05

Not in that, not when she asks you that, though.

SPEAKER_02: 47:07

No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01: 47:08

All right, don't come to us for relationship advice. Go to Tim Orion for that one, I think.

SPEAKER_03: 47:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:13

Yeah. All right. We are about done making a fool of ourselves. So, Caleb, thank you for coming on. We appreciated your insight. I think it is one awesome to hear um someone from the youth willing to stand up and be on a podcast to talk about these things that the whole church is going to hear. But looking at your notebook, you sat through those sermons and took notes on all of it. And so that's awesome to see. And so thank you for doing that. You are awesome. We appreciate you coming, and we're excited to see what you do here at A Fresh Wind. And everyone listening, thank you for listening. We love you guys. We'll talk to you next month.

SPEAKER_04: 47:48

Bye.