SPEAKER_00: 0:16

Welcome and thanks for joining us on the Blue Chair Podcast, brought to you by Fresh Wind Church. Each month, we discuss the latest sermons from the perspective of the Blue Chairs.

SPEAKER_01: 0:27

Hello and welcome to the Blue Chair Podcast. I am Pastor Jared, and with me, as always, we have Charles Magar.

SPEAKER_02: 0:34

How's it going?

SPEAKER_01: 0:35

Good. And today, as our special guest and a special treat for everybody, we have Mrs. Katie Curtis. Say hello.

SPEAKER_03: 0:43

Hi, everybody.

SPEAKER_01: 0:44

You know, when I told Allison you were gonna be on the podcast, her reaction was like to shoot her head up and look at me, and she was just like, that is a great idea.

SPEAKER_02: 0:53

Yeah, Erica said the same thing.

SPEAKER_03: 0:54

Wow, these expectations are high.

SPEAKER_01: 0:56

Yeah, so you better come up with something real good, maybe super theological or something.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00

Absolutely. You know what? I will speak my heart. I can give you that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03

Good deal. So what we're talking about today is the lot the series that we went through in September, I believe. Do I have my months right, Charles?

SPEAKER_02: 1:12

Yeah, September.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14

Um, so our September series, it is called God Just Tell Me. And so what this whole series is about, just a quick overview of it, is finding out what God's will is for you. How do we do that? Um, how can we mess up at that? What's the what's the real question we should be asking when we're searching for God's will? And honestly, I think um Pastor Tim and Ryan did fantastic. I think they kind of pulled us to the main point um that we need to keep an eye out for when we are trying to find God's will, and that is not so much what we're doing, but how we're doing it and who we are when we're doing it. Right. I say that, then Charles just stares at me.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00

I didn't know if you were going somewhere with that, if that was leading into something else, or no, just open-ended.

SPEAKER_01: 2:06

But um, the to kick us off, let's look at week one. Uh, Ryan kind of explained to us the four aspects of God's will. So God has sovereign will. Um, it is God's unstoppable master plan for creation. So, whatever God is saying, this is going to happen, Jesus Christ dying, resurrection, um, him coming back, that's all God's sovereign will. There's nothing on the planet or in heaven or on earth that can stop that from happening. And then we have moral will. Moral will. That's gonna be a hard one for me to say this entire time. Um, it is revealed in scripture for how we are to live and treat others. This is also unchanging, right? It doesn't matter what's going on in our lives, it doesn't matter what the fat is, um, it doesn't matter what society says is good or bad, God's moral will does not change. And I think that's the one. Let's discuss that a little bit, because I think that's the one that everyone kind of tends to get hung up on, especially if they're new to the church. They're coming to the church, they think things are all right, they think who really cares if someone does this or lives this way or does these things, but God says it's wrong. And so that change in thought is what I think a lot of people might get hung up on, putting God's will before our own.

SPEAKER_03: 3:23

Okay. So scripture teaches us that um in this area, especially, uh, there's obviously some clear-cut things the Bible says, you know, do not do this, do not do that. We also need to remember that the Bible says that what we're doing is leading our brother to stumble, that we need to be cautious in that area of our lives too. So I hate to say that it can be up and down on how moral will is addressed in our lives, but for an instance, you know, if if you have a brother that's struggling in an addiction to something, um, he's telling me to move closer to the mic, but I have a pretty big mouth. So I'm looking at your way from it. You can't hear me. Um so you know, if someone's struggling with addiction, I may not go and um participate in drinking a drink of wine, right, with that person. So um I I think there's very clear-cut things in moral will. And I think our society today um really lacks that moral will. Um, we've more and more, I think it's the enemy's plan, right? To sneak in all these just little adjustments of it's okay to do this, it's okay to do that, oh, a little bit more of this. You know, it's it's okay to, you know, be tipsy, right? It's okay to do this. I know we're hitting right on alcohol, which is a big topic. Um, but um, whatever the area is, what we always have to do is go back to scripture and say, is what I'm doing, is it honoring God? And is it honoring God's sovereign will and plan for my life, right? Which is the one we talked about before this, which is to to love God and to tell others about God, right? And to to spread the word. That's that's really the ultimate of God's sovereign will is that Jesus came to save and redeem the world, right? And so am I loving God and am I telling others about God? And that goes into how is my moral will representing who Christ is and who I am.

SPEAKER_01: 5:07

And so um Tim kind of touched on that. Uh, I think that was can't remember which one he talked about it on, though. Um, where when you we're talking about sin and um how sin with like personal sin, right? That there are some things that God might call you away from that aren't necessarily a sin for everybody else, right? Like so you could be perfectly fine having a beer, and you're a grown man, you have a beer, you're good, great. Um, but someone else might have one beer and they can't stop there. And so God might call them away from that for that reason. And that doesn't mean it is terrible for that one person to have one beer, but what it means is God might put something on your life, give you something that's a sin, or explain, put it on your heart that something is a sin, and you're called to stay away from that. And kind of what you said, dear, um, don't make a brother stumble, it just made me think of it. My mom used to like whisper to me whenever I was doing something stupid growing up, don't eat the meat. And it was like a little pointer to I think it's 1 Corinthians, where Paul's writing and saying, Hey, if you can eat meat on sacrifice on idols, it doesn't matter, it's just meat. But if it's an issue for somebody else, don't do it. You'll be fine without it. Eat the other meat, you do what you're supposed to do. So I think that's some really good insight right there.

SPEAKER_02: 6:28

Yeah, I think uh me and Erica just had this conversation the other day because it's our society today is like all about self. So it's you know, if it's not impacting me, what does it matter if I'm doing it around this person? Because that's not me. So if it's not bothering me, why should I quit doing it? Um and for me, it's you know, like she mentioned with the stumbling blocks and what you just clarified as well, is that even if it's not a stumbling block for me, it is for them. So why, like what benefit is it for me to do it if it's causing them to stumble? And ultimately, in in the grand scheme of things, it would be way more beneficial to if you want to do that thing and you want to do it in the comfort of your own home or you know, when that person's not around, there's more benefit to that than to cause your brother, brother to stumble. Sorry, I'm so congested, I'm struggling so hard right now. But no, I agree with that. That's that's good.

SPEAKER_01: 7:26

So one that staying on this four aspects of God's will, the permissive will. God allows free will, even disobedience, but it works toward his purpose. That's one that's I think can be confusing. So let's let's dive into that one if everyone's interested in it.

SPEAKER_03: 7:46

First of all, thank God that we have a merciful father, right? Yes. So um we are a failed mankind, right? We I make mistakes all the time. I have to go and apologize and pick them up. There's times when I've made choices in my life that in hindsight I look back and say, wow, that probably wasn't the best choice, right? I'm sure we've all kind of been in that situation. Um, but because God's plan is always to restore us to Him, thank God, right? Thank God His mercy is so mighty because I, you know, I joke around all the time that if I was God, I probably would have just taken out everything a long time ago and just burned out the whole world, right? Because I'm just this the truth. I think God his mercy is so wide, because we do fail. He knew that we are going to be a people from the very beginning, from that pluck of that apple from the tree, that we are going to um to have these failures in our lives, including some of these decisions and guides that are big choices in our lives. Uh, but because of God's permissive will and his mercy, he can always redirect and replan back into those when we come to him, when we confess, when we truly turn away and choose to follow his way and his will, um, that we do have a direction back towards his purpose. And he can use that rather it be a painful learning experience or it be um you know a redirection, a correction even sometimes to where we need to be with him. I will say that we tend to uh in those moments of despair in our lives, we tend to grow closer to God. It's much easier in those moments uh because we realize that we are a feudal man, right? That we don't have um the ability to do this on our own. And so thank God for that permissive will of God, because without it, I I would personally be in a lot of trouble.

SPEAKER_01: 9:32

Oh, for sure. And I think I think it was mentioned in this one how with this comes along free will, and we have the opportunity to not follow God at all. We can choose to, from the beginning of our lives, to reject God and run away from him. And that seems like why would a loving God give people an opportunity to never know him and the outcome being eternal separation and how? Well, what I think is super important that they pointed out was that if you don't have free will to choose to not choose God, then you don't actually love God if you choose God. Like if you're forced to love somebody, it doesn't mean anything. You're a robot at that point, and you have no, there's no like genuine significance in your love. And it's like when you your kid does some something mean and they're not sorry, but you tell your little four-year-old, go say sorry, and they walk over and they're like, sorry, like it doesn't mean anything. Everyone knows it doesn't mean anything. You're just teaching a kid that, hey, when you you should be feeling sorry right here. That's the main thing that you're teaching. And so with this with this permissive will, that's where our like that's the root of our relationship with God. The choice that we have in that. And I think it's our I am it. Thank God for that permissive will. All right, let's jump around. What do you got, Charles? You always got something week four out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_02: 11:04

Yeah, no, I mean, most of my comments are spread all over the place, but uh I think the one I gotta find it. Um I think it was Bear with me. No, actually, I think it was week four. Maybe that. Um I think it was when when Ryan was giving the three points. Um, but the one point was we over-spiritualize God's will, uh, that we expect everything to be this big spiritual event instead of just trusting in his sovereign will as it is. But then he made the comment that we all ask for an open door while we're sitting here with closed Bibles. Like that that phrase right there just punched me right in the throat a little bit.

SPEAKER_03: 11:46

I remember that one too.

SPEAKER_01: 11:48

And then he started singing.

SPEAKER_02: 11:49

Yeah, I wasn't gonna bring up the singing. Um but actually, you know what?

SPEAKER_01: 11:54

At least he's not tone deaf. It didn't sound terrible. Yeah, it's significantly better than if I was singing for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 12:00

Yeah. Um, but I I think that just that one phrase that we're all asking for an open door, like this big sign that he's real, but we we're sitting here with our Bibles closed.

SPEAKER_01: 12:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:11

Um, a lot of times I find that the the troubles are you know, troubles, struggles, whatever it is that we're going through, like just opening up the Bible and reading through it a lot of times in his own word, he's gonna lead you to the answer in that. And instead we just sit here and ask him, like his examples are funny, but like the whole make my door open a little bit, you know, rattle the blinds on my windows. It's silly, but people ask for stuff like that all the time when the answer's right here. We just don't open the book long enough to find it.

SPEAKER_03: 12:40

That's good. You know, the word of God says that faith comes from hearing and hearing from the very word of God, right? So um it really is the reality of how we grow and understand and are able to connect with God. And you know, I I say this to the students back in uh children's ministry at the time, just like any other relationship, if you're not investing in that relationship, you're not going to know them. And really knowing God's will is is knowing his heart, knowing what he has to say to us. And that is his love story. You know, I people used to always say the Bible is your guidebook, which it a hundred percent is, but really it's his love story to us of his completion of all that he's doing and going to do until we are restored fully in him, right? And so uh a hundred percent agree that you know, with without opening up the word of God, without talking with him, you know, I always tell the students, you know, who's your best friend? You know, and they'll say, whoever it is. And so you guys don't talk for like a year, no, don't see each other, don't you know, get on the phone together. Maybe every once in a while you'll run into each other or hear a couple little things about them. Are you really best friends? You know, no, of course not. And that's the same thing with our walk with with God. We we will our faith, our ability to understand what God's purpose and will for our life is all connected to how much time we're spending with him, how much we're reading his word, how much we're investing in our relationship with him. So a hundred percent. Um hundred percent a kiddo just jumped in here, which is my favorite part of podcasts when there's the interruptions. Um so uh yeah, I I I that's really I think where God's will is understood is as we know his heart more and what he wants for us, and where that that condemnation and that daily, you know, am I doing what is right kind of decreases as well because the closer you are to God's heart, you're going to be doing the things that he wants you to do. You're going to be following his direction, you're going to be, you know, avoiding some of those roadblocks that are coming in front of us.

SPEAKER_01: 14:37

And what it's and he points it out all the time, uh in the entire series, Tim and Ryan both, that it's not a specific thing that God is trying to necessarily get you to do. Right? Like God doesn't care if you're a dentist or a soldier or a stunt double, like it doesn't matter. But what are you doing in that position? Like, are you going to the dentist and like as a dentist, are you going there and are you sharing the gospel? Are you treating your employees well? Are you doing all of those things that God is calling us to do and how he's calling us to act? Same thing with any other position, uh, any other job that you may have. Like, are you, no matter what, have some sort of pedestal because of people you know? And are you using that pedestal if you're using that opportunity to share the gospel, to draw people closer to God, to help others discover more in Christ? Or are you not doing any of that? Or even worse, are you negle negative to negative to the words negligent negligent or negatively affecting people's walk with God? And so we we focus so much on the what. And this series kind of really brought home that it's not the what, it doesn't matter. And I remember I um was looking at master's programs, and I talked to Tim about it, and I asked him, I was like, which one should I do? Should I do the like traditional MDiv? Or I was thinking about doing this other thing, and he's like, Oh, that doesn't matter. I was like, What? Like, what do you mean it doesn't matter, Tim? He's like, it's a master's. You got the bachelor's, people already know you know stuff. Just get to the master's you think would be more interesting because that's all 90% of the people. Like, you got to find a real niche group of people to be like, well, it's not quite an M div, it's more of a it's it's 42 credits rather than 45. So and so um Tim's been telling me that forever. It doesn't matter what you do, just follow God and do what you're supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_03: 16:36

Yeah, and in the end, I think that is the conclusion of our lives. We're gonna stand before God and He's not gonna say, What, what did you accomplish in this, this, this, and this in the world of of our you know, our workplace or our you know, our accomplishments. It's going to be, did you do those purposes of loving me and bringing others alongside and loving me? You know, and I have to remind myself on a regular basis because it is there's so much in the world that you know you the expectations of of what you're going to do and become and what's the next step. It's just really what this whole sermon series is about is making sure you're in the will of God, right? In what you're doing. Um, and and making sure that you're understanding that that doesn't necessarily you you kind of said earlier, Charles, that we are you can get so caught up in the mechanicals of all of it, the mechanics of all of it, that we miss the whole purpose. That really just being in God's will is walking in unison with him and understanding his heart. You know, and uh this world tells you you have to have this much, this type of car, this, you know, a house, this accomplishments, this degree. But really, when we stand before God, all of that is futile, right? All of that means nothing. And so I really think that's even an employee of the enemy to bring in anxiety and frustration and um really uh that that sinful nature of always wanting and not having enough, you know, in our lives. And we do have to check back and here it says a spiritual reality check on this paper I'm looking at, but it really is a spiritual reality check is is this God's heart for what my life is going to be? And you know, by all means, I think we need highly educated, you know, uh Christian workers. We need highly educated people. Ryan was joking around and said, we need rich people, you know, we need we need people that are accomplishing and being good. And I 100% believe that God wants to provide that into people's lives so that the church can move forward in in the projects and the stuff that it needs. But in the end, when we stand before God, those the questions he's going to ask is, you know, did you love me and did you bring others to me? You know, and so we I think that can give us a uh just uh ability to relax and take a deep breath at times because all this stuff is just, you know, if if tomorrow we were gone, none of that would matter.

SPEAKER_02: 18:51

Yeah, you know, yeah, and I like what you said because it ties into what Ryan said. Um sorry to stick on week four, but that's just where it's at. He uh brings up Colossians, um, I think it's Colossians three, but when he's talking about if we walk out God's word doing everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, it will lead us into God's will for our lives. And then he goes on to talk about how it's not always an open door leading us into God's will, sometimes it's a closed door. And then he makes, you know, the joke about sometimes it's slammed in your face. Yeah. And I I think even in my earlier walk as a Christian, a lot of times you are just asking for an open door. But if you're not doing things in the name of Christ, he's gonna shut doors in your face. And quite frankly, like we should be asking for him to shut doors in our face. Like, there's things in our lives that we need to purge out and that we need to steer away from. Obviously, we can't always do those things on our own. Sometimes we should be on our knees asking him, like, there's an area of my life that I need to close this door and like show this to me, close the door in my face, let me know. Um but I thought that whole section was powerful just because it is. It's we get caught up in the me. Like, I need this, I need that, I need you to just do it for me. Open this door, but and we're not asking for what door should be closed, and we should be doing that on a more daily basis too.

SPEAKER_03: 20:08

Yeah, that's that's really good. Um, and again, remembering that those times of closed doors are sometimes times of this learning and growing, and God saying, you know what, right now you're depending a little bit more on yourself, you know, on this situation or on this blessing than you are on knowing that I am your substance, you know, I am your ability to be and exist and have joy and peace. And so uh 100% I believe God does, you know, sometimes even close doors to help us be reminded that we need to be drawn back to him and to know that he's the one that can give us all those things that we need.

SPEAKER_02: 20:45

Oh, for sure. Yeah, I have to remind myself it's not rejection, it's correction. Like he's not rejecting the thing that I want, he's correcting me to what I need.

SPEAKER_01: 20:54

Yeah. I know there was a season in my life where I had a job where I just for the life of me, I couldn't get along with my boss. Like genuinely struggling with it. And I was talking to Ryan about it, and I must have talked to him about it too much because he looked at me one day and he was just like, you know what? 30 days. I was like, what? 30 days, you just say yes and do it. Do it his way, switching task after you get set up for one, so what? Do it, do it his way, don't do anything else. I feel he's like, I feel like God is teaching you just to submit. Work, he's working something out of you, and it's good. And that whole time, like leading up to that point, I was just struggling with like I know I could do more than what where I'm at. Like, I know I have more things, and God wants me to do more. But why am I here? Like, why are all why is it why is the door out of this situation shut? And right there, I was after those 30 days, I was really mad at Ryan because it was not a fun thing to do. But at the same time, God's like, I'm gonna work this out of you because that's not something for me. That's something from you that you're you have pride, you have whatever, that you need to work out and get out of here because you need to be able to listen and you need to be able to be led so that you can lead, and so that you can be an example to other people and things like that. And um it is it is so important. It kind of brings into contentment, right? We want we want so much more, we want the big grand job, or we want the nice car, and we want all these things, not because we can give more to the church, we want those things because they make us feel good, they show other people that we we're successful, we're good at what we do. And that's again, that's like kind of like you said, like there God doesn't care about that. You're gone tomorrow. None of that's coming with you. The only thing that matters is what you're doing for God while you're on earth. How what job you may have, what vocation you may have while you're on earth, doesn't matter nearly as much as how you're doing it. And like, sure, I think there are some instances where God has called people to be a preacher. And you Tim even got into it, like, right? God calls you to be a preacher, but you are stealing, or you are uh just mean all the time. It's like you go home and your kids can't stand you because you're mean all the time. Is that what God is calling you to do? Is that the example God is calling you to set, or are you discrediting the the calling that God may have put on your life? And I don't know, I'm rambling at this point.

SPEAKER_02: 23:35

Well, I liked what you said like about your boss, because I think I think it was Ryan who talked about it where he said uh God has placed people into our lives to lead us down a better path, ultimately fulfilling God's plan for us. But every time it's inconvenient to us that that person's been placed in our path, we just deny it. Because like, how could that be of God if it's inconvenient for me? But it's understanding that sometimes those people are put like we've had this conversation before with I forget who it was, something about they were filling up bags of food. I can't remember your whole story. But it's the things that in your mind are people that you've built this conception that you can't stand this type of person, whatever. But they're constantly being put in front of you in your life. That's God working out the problem you have, it's not the person.

SPEAKER_01: 24:21

Oh, I see what you're saying. I know what the story is.

SPEAKER_02: 24:23

But it's it's the problem that you have. So there's a problem in you that God's placing these people in front of you over and over again because that's the problem you need to work out. It has nothing to do with that person, it has to do with something that's in you that he's trying to work out of you.

SPEAKER_01: 24:36

Um or in all honesty, it could just not be God necessarily putting them in your life. It could be you're in a community or you're in an area where those be you're gonna run into those people and it you just default back to do what you're supposed to do. Love people.

SPEAKER_03: 24:52

That's right.

SPEAKER_01: 24:52

Help others discover more in Christ. It doesn't matter if it is because God's putting them there or if because it's happenstance. God's putting people in front of your life, and it's your job is to love people and lead people to Christ. And if there's anything in your way that is stopping that, you're running away from God's will. Because that's ultimately God's will.

SPEAKER_03: 25:12

Exactly. And it's also remembering that you know, we live in a world that we have these preconceived notions, and I believe as we're given more and we have and we have more blessings, it's easier for us to look on to things or onto people who don't maybe have that much. Um, and sometimes it's because of their own choices and their own behaviors. And that could be a struggle. But what's really helped me is to remember that this, you know, we are we are not at war with one another. You know, there is a spiritual element that's in this world, and and quite literally, you either belong to him, to our king, or you do not, right? There's there's no in middle ground with him. You know, there's no there's no uh warm, you know, we're either hot or we're cold. And so remembering that, you know, some of these things are also spiritual afflictions that are happening in people's lives. They are uh I hate these world, but generational uh teachings that they have in how they're living and how they're they're breathing, how they're doing, and quite literally, even spiritual 100% afflictions of the devil that are either of you know oppression or even possession of spirits that are not of our world. And so I always try to step back and say, all right, God, let me look at them the way that you would look at them. And that's hard sometimes because some of these people just in my mind, again, we you know made the comment earlier, if I was God, you know, we'd all be in trouble, you know, because we just are so undeserving and do so many that this world is just such an awful place, right? Um, but you know, Jesus was always one who went to the most broken, filthy, dirty person, the most unwanted and and you know, disliked, and with it with the plan to restore, once again, his whole life plan for us to restore us to him. And so, really, if we're talking about what happening in the will and in the heart of God, that is exactly the people that God should be bringing us over. And you know, and sometimes it has to come back to us saying, God, help me love and look at people the way that you do. And let me tell you, there's times when I've done that, and that is hard, so hard. And and and really, if you really mean that, be ready. Because I mean, because the devil, the devil is not all all knowing, he's not, you know, omnipresent. But trust me, when you are saying those prayers, especially out loud or in a podcast with other people, he's hearing those things and he's like, all right, I got you. You know, like I we'll we'll come in and we'll we'll test this theory here. You know, um, and so I I think it's just again that submission to God to saying, you know what, not my will but yours. Not my will but yours. And so whatever that means, that means, you know, I I had a uh pastor growing up, awesome man. He's he's head of a salvation um army right now in New York City. Um, and I mean I think he actually might came back local, but either way, he uh he would go and he would give money to the homeless. He would feed them. We would go out on weekends and take out food trucks and feed them. And and there are people in the church that'd be very disturbed that he would go up and give a drunk man, homeless person, food or money or you know, or whatever. Like, why are you doing that? They're gonna go spend it on alcohol, you know. And he would say, you know what, that is that that is not my job to tell him how he's going to spend his money. My job is to feed him. My job is to make sure that if he has a need, that I'm helping him meet that need. And I don't know how God's gonna connect or use this, but what I know his word said is for me to go and to reach these people and to touch them and to pray over them. And so it opened up opportunities, obviously, as he continually served these people with addiction and with with you know these terrible situations in their lives where he was able to lead and bring several of these uh brothers and sisters in Christ into him. But if you if you would have seen that dirty, nasty, possibly drug-infested, you know, homeless person on the street and just avoided him or her, there there was no chance that they were ever going to find the kingdom of God. Right. Um, and so I I always think about my that pastor when I'm looking back on how God loved people, because that is exactly how the heart of God loves people. And uh it can be difficult again because it's all about us, right? Because it comes back to us, our discomfort, our dislike, our whatever, um, towards the people who are around.

SPEAKER_01: 29:24

Yeah, I mean, it's to pretend that one being a Christian is easy is a fallacy, and to pretend that evangelizing and getting in the muck is like always enjoyable. Like there are 100% moments that are fun and great, and you can see the joy and you can see the change and things like that, but you're gonna be uncomfortable. And I talk about I talk about it with the youth and stuff when we're when we're worried about what other people are doing, like at school. It is unfair to put the law on people who don't know Christ. If all they have is 85 years on earth and they don't believe in Christ and they're gonna spend eternity separated from Christ, obviously they're going to do everything they can to make themselves feel good and have fine pleasure and have happiness on earth because they think that's it. The only like the only thing that changes our hearts to not do that is Christ. If we didn't know Christ, we're not going to be following the law. And so when we look at people and see them living in ways that are wrong, that are hurting themselves in the long run, that are um not beneficial, that are against God. We need to keep in mind that if they don't know God, they're not just going to accidentally start following the Ten Commandments to a T. Like it's it's just not going to happen. We can't have that expectation of people. Now, what you would do is exactly what you said, where we go and find them where they're at and we love on them. And man, I have also struggled with that. I'm gonna give this guy my money. What is he going to do with it? Like I could buy, I could buy another Red Bull, or I can get a pizza and have pizza with the kids today or something. Like, yeah, we're gonna miss out on some of those things. But what we also need to keep in mind, it's not our money. We're not we're not tithing, we're not giving out our money, we're giving back what God let us have. All of it's from God. And so when we get something, we're just returning that to God when we when we either tithe or when we love on people and get them something. It's if we are content and we have that faith that things are gonna run. No, I'm not saying go and give away your paycheck or anything. You have to be smart and be a good steward. But how much more can we give? Not and I'm not even saying to the church, although, like Ryan said, we could definitely use some rich people in the church, start donating. But how much can you give throughout the week at work? Buy someone, buy someone you know goes to church lunch, buy someone you know who doesn't go to church lunch, those things like that, and ask people why. Or when people ask you why, you can address that and be like, because I just feel like God's leading me to do that right now. I feel like God and that can bring so many opportunities. You can create a change in someone else's church that leads them closer to Christ. You can make a change in someone else that doesn't know Christ and bring them to church and have that opportunity. But if we are wrapped into being comfortable and in our bubble, we're never gonna have that opportunity.

SPEAKER_02: 32:38

Well, I know all these all these sermons kind of hit me this week. Just in general, just uh you know, I was telling you at Life Group, you know, a guy I work with, uh not gonna say any names, but his mom health-wise is hasn't been doing very well. And listening to all these and reading through these notes that I've had and understanding that if we're not following Christ, if we're not in his word, understanding what it is that we're called for and we're not following him, like what are we what are we giving others? And honestly, when he started telling me about his mom, I am not I'm a very uh I get nervous when it comes to putting myself in the spotlight. And I I wouldn't even feel like I was following Christ if I didn't offer to go and be with him and his family during that time. And as hard as it was for me to do it, like I texted him and said, Hey, if you need someone, like either I can come or I can even, you know, talk to one of the pastors from the church and have them come. But these are things like I I've been telling Erica that it just I got drawn to text him that because I feel like if we're not doing these things, like how can we say that we're following Christ or following his word and and understanding how we should be, even for someone who's a non-believer, we should be showing the light and we are the salt, we are the you know, we should be spreading these things. And for me, it's there's a lot of times in my life where I realize I'm not doing enough of these things, and then when something like that comes up, I mean it's like a conviction thing. You're sitting there all night, like, man, I should really probably be texting him, and like if you need me there, I'll be there. But it like sometimes we struggle with it, and I struggle with it. And then the night that I texted him, I felt like it was just getting pounded into my head, like, no, you really need to text this guy. And but you know, all these sermons are all leading to the same thing. Like, in order to know him and to understand, like, we need to be in his word. And you know, I think it was Tim or Ryan said the whole like we want a map laid out, but he's giving us a lamp, and all we need to do is just follow Christ. And so for me, it's like, I don't need the map, just light my path, tell me where I need to go, and I'm I'm gonna follow it.

SPEAKER_03: 34:43

And really, it's just taking that next step, right? Just God, what like that, that urging of that Holy Spirit to do something and being obedient in the little things and in the big things, maybe sending a text. No matter what where you are in your faith walk, you know, you'll hear Christian and non-Christians say, you know, yeah, that your actions speak louder than your words. And and that is a hundred percent the problem we have in our in our society with the way people look at the Christian community right now, because sometimes our actions and our words just don't match up, right? Um and that and that makes it really complicated to be a good steward of who God has called you to be, which is again to bring you know uh others to him, to do more in Christ, right? There you go, Ryan. A plug for you. Um to do more in Christ, to to to love God and to to bring the world alongside with you. And um, if our actions aren't matching up with the words that we're saying or the things that we're preaching, you know, in our workplaces, in our, you know, wherever we're we're we're going, in our kids' games, then you're just going to be looked at as another hypocritical Christian, right? And so that is where we can only we can only do those things when we are walking in what God wants us to do. And that comes through that faith of hearing his word, growing in his word, and spending time with him. I mean, it you you we need to be broken. You know, another thing I always say to our kids, ultimately sin is us simply thinking we're better than God, right? That our needs are bigger than what God says we need, that are from the very, we see it in our children from the very young age of going up to that plug and and and you know, and wanting to play with that, you know, that plug and no, no, no, no. But oh, they want to do it, right? They're gonna do it, right? They they they think that they know more than you do. And that's really what it comes down to our that area of sin in our lives. And um, we have to have that constantly be broken. And the only way I think we can do that is by getting closer to God on a regular basis. You know, uh it's corny, but my pastor used to say you grow daily or you die gradually. And that really is who we are in our and how it is in our faith. We are either gonna grow or we're or we're going to die gradually because we have to constantly be pulling closer to him and to his spirit and to the kingdom, or the the devil's gonna take every opportunity to come in and there's another book I recently read, you know, don't give the devil a seat at your table, right? Um, and uh or or the devil's gonna come in and take a seat at that table, right? If we're not if we're not allowing God and and his Holy Spirit and and the words of Christ and that time with him into our lives, the devil's going to put whoever he can at that table to pull you away. My kids get sick of it because I say things like that to them all the time too. Um, but you know, ultimately, are we doing, are we honoring God and what we're doing with our actions? Are they matching up to the words that we say with our mouths? Because if not, you know, it we aren't going to be a good example. We aren't gonna be able to be in the will of God because we can't be a witness to this world without those things connected.

SPEAKER_01: 37:51

The small things matter so much, and it's the will of God isn't some massive, and they I think Tim talks about it where it's it's not this big, massive orchestrated Jared's going to do this thing. Like it is the small things added up because you have a lamp and you can see the next step. And so that might be telling your kids 5,000 times, don't give Satan a seat at your table. And so that kid grows up knowing that and walking in a way that is that is reflective of that. And so then that kid can go and share the gospel with other people, and that but that multiplies the gospel and multiplies the number of people going to hell.

SPEAKER_02: 38:34

I really like that by the way. I'm gonna take it and use it at home. Well, I don't give a phrase. I like it.

SPEAKER_03: 38:39

I I say that to them, and then I I say things along like, is what you're going to do, does it honor God? Is it kind and is it gonna get you in trouble? And this works for adults too. What you're doing with what you're about to say is gonna honor God, is it kind? Is it gonna get you in trouble? And if it's not doing any of those things, then you need to step back from your situation and reapproach. And so they get really annoyed about that too. But that's another thing I say to them all the time because and really it convicts me too, because as I'm repeating it to them, I'm hearing it in my own mind, right? Um, you know, is is what I'm doing ultimately, is it something that's going to bring joy to my father? Is it going to bring a smile to God's face? Because if it's not, I need to step back. And again, it may not even be a simple thing, right, that you're doing, but is it something, especially the get you in trouble part with kids? You know, is it are you being disrespectful with the words you're saying? Are you raising your tone? You know, whatever. Um, but I there's times when that the Holy Spirit brings that back to me to remind me, am I being again, am I putting those actions behind the words that I that I say in my life?

SPEAKER_01: 39:46

Because they see all of it, they know it. They do when you're telling them to do one thing and you act different, they're they're making mental notes and they know that. And it's not always that that student or that child is going to throw it in your face, but what you're your actions are showing them that what you're saying doesn't really matter. And it only matters, and the only reason they're supposed to be doing that is because you said, and when they no longer have to do what you say because they don't live in your room under your roof, it creates a massive problem that they can it doesn't matter. What mom taught me doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03: 40:18

This goes in your marriage too, you know. In your marriage, are you what you're saying, the investment that you're making in your in your spouse who God has called you to love second to only him, right? Is are your actions and your behaviors doing exactly those things too, you know? And so every relationship in our lives, we can apply um those aspects too, you know, and ultimately again, it comes back to our whole thing that God's will is simply loving him and loving others and bringing them to him, right? And so um all it always comes back to are we loving God the way that God would want us to love people, right? And again, I'm not saying any of these things are easy because we and we're gonna fail, you know. Thank God, thank God again, that permissive will of God we talked about earlier, that when we fail, we we have a roadblock, you know, no, it's not a permanent roadblock, we have a way back to Him, um, you know, which is that twofold part though. Remember, it's it's not just saying with our words, I'm sorry, or I made a mistake, it's turning away, repenting, you know, actual a whole you know, turnaround. Um, and that's the other part I think as as Christians is sometimes we get so caught up in our words of, you know, oh I'm sorry, or I messed up, or I'm really good about that confessing side, but that repentant, you know, that repenting side is the harder part of all of it. Um, but really it's always twofold in the word of God and when we're coming and we're and we're you know coming to him and giving things over to him. It's the words are only one thing if we're not having that action, right? You know, our actions speak louder than our words. It's really what God put in the word in his word, you know. So hey, look at that. He he actually put that plan right there in front of us.

SPEAKER_01: 41:58

It is, and I think they they talk about this in the uh in the series as well. It's like it's like there being the Ten Commandments and then Jesus changing and putting it on our hearts. It's not about oh, you didn't kill that person, but did you insult them? Like that's just as bad. Like, that's not the will of God. The will of God is to love and to show kindness and to call people higher. And like we say all this, but we also don't mean not say to avoid hard truths. There's truth in love, and some things you say they may not love to hear. But are you are you saying those things because you're trying to hurt them and tear them down, or are you trying to say those things because there needs to be a conversation, right? Like we've we're all married, we've all had conversations with our spouses where it's like, hey, this isn't gonna be a fun one, but we need to have it so we can address this thing. And maybe it's telling someone when after they went to work all day, like, hey, um, before we go out to eat, like your shirt's inside out. And like it's gonna be awkward, but you're gonna keep them from that embarrassment of realizing it later. And it is it all comes down to my my mind just lost the thoughts that were in my head entirely. It all comes down to following God and loving him, and it's like it's like micro wills, mic will micro plans. It's not the big plans that we're gonna do these, um, you're gonna be leading a church of 5,000. It is, are you leading that child good in this situation? Are you loving your wife properly in this situation? Are you doing those things day in and day out that are going to add up to something bigger than you can possibly imagine? And that's the will of God. And you only figure that out, and you're only capable of doing that when you are spending time in the Word, when you are praying with Him, when you are worshiping, when you're having those spiritual disciplines that draw you to God, and so you can see the perfect and pleasing will of God.

SPEAKER_03: 43:55

That's good. And that brings you back to the point that Ryan said, you're focusing on your character over your choices, right? So all those things you talked about is the character, who you actually are on that regular basis. Uh, not that our daily choices don't matter, but in the end, we're again we're gonna have moments when we bite off our spouses' heads or we say things that are hurtful. We're gonna do those things, but ultimately is our character, is our goal. Um, and by the way, our kids learn so much too from in our failures and how you approach that failure. If you bite your child's head off, if you say something wrong and inappropriate to them, if you do, and you come back and you're saying, you know what, I am sorry. I messed up. That is going to be a teaching lesson that will stick in their heart, knowing that, you know what, first of all, this person that I hopefully respect, right? Also is making mistakes and looking how they're responding to that mistake that they made. You know, and this starts as a very young, even as a small child, it's important to go to your kid and be like, you know what, I'm sorry. You know, I was angry and I responded poorly in that situation. Or I did, and that's hard because you know, you're the parent, you know, you're supposed to have it all together. But you know, those those are that is teaching the heart of God, that is showing your character to your kids and hopefully the character that they want to reflect later in life, you know, and so um definitely focusing on our character over our choices, working on being and becoming the person that God is wanting us all to be.

SPEAKER_02: 45:17

No, I like that. I like what you said um also about going back to the Ten Commandments and looking at the looking at the New Testament, because we've talked about this in the past where it's not that anything changed, the accountability has been raised. So when you look at the Old Testament and they were hyper-fixated on the Ten Commandments, but they it wasn't the deep core meaning, it was just what was written. So you're saying, you know, not to murder, but Christ says just you know, hate in your heart is murder already. So for me, it's something that we do, you know, like Christ told the Pharisees that they shut the door to the kingdom in people's faces. So if we're coming out of hate towards somebody that's ultimately steering them away from God spiritually, we've already killed them because they're we shut the door in their face, they're not even gonna look to God anymore. So I mean, deeply I think about those kinds of things because it's not just the letter of the Ten Commandments. Christ reminds us that the depth of it is love. And are we walking that love out every day? Are we showing that love to everyone every day?

SPEAKER_03: 46:20

So I love that you said that the accountability just increased because that is 100% what it is. But I I also think that it's awesome because God didn't just leave us in that accountability increase. He gave us the Holy Spirit. You know, when he left, he didn't say, You here you go, I'm no longer walking with you. He gave us this empowering ability to be obedient to those things. Um, and and you know, and our again, our faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. Our faith is going to grow by growing in him, by talking with him, which is simply just having a conversation. You know, sometimes we take prayer into, and I have no issue with you when read, you know, there's always these pre-established I do the Bible app, you know, prayers in there. And honestly, if you I I can pray those at times and they they can be heartfelt with your meaning, what you're listening reading, right? Other times it's just talking to God, like we're having this conversation right now, and just saying your heart. And sometimes when I'm talking to God, it is not pleasant. It is not, it's God, I am upset, I am angry. Why did you? We had a terrible situation happen um when we were pastoring years back, uh, where a small child had passed away in our church, um, just a terrible situation. And I remember driving to the hospital and literally screaming and crying at God because I was so upset, you know. And people might think, like, oh, that's terrible. But God knew in my heart in that moment that we were having that conversation. God had to work out something in my own life. And see, I get I'm an emotional person. Um, it was it was a unique situation, obviously, that you that face in life, but um like I can still remember that moment, and God did not condemn me and my emotions, He loved on me, you know? And so I it's important to know that we can um come to God in our and prayer doesn't have to be something that's uh things that we you know sound not holy and have all the right things to say. Prayer is simply having a conversation with your daddy, just like you would want your kid to crawl up on your lap and talk to you if they're having a bad day, or um, you know, communicate with you if they're struggling in something. God loves you that very way. He's a daddy who wants to wrap his arms around you and help guide you through life, you know, and so um that should be comforting that we have the Holy Spirit to empower us, don't mind me. Um that we have the Holy Spirit to um, I'm a very passionate person um to uh empower us to those obedient, you know, things that God are asking us to do, those ten commandments. We're not alone in this walk, and so we should be encouraged in that the devil has already lost, right? We already are in a winning battle.

SPEAKER_01: 48:58

And so all right, guys. On that note, I don't think there's a better way to end it. We need to crawl up on our daddy's lap and talk to him and get to know him, and he'll tell us what to do. It doesn't need to be a huge thing where you have your whole life planned out. He'll lead you in the next step and grab your lamp and keep walking. Um, because he's got great things for us, and those great things are a bunch of small things added up, and that's that's pretty great. And so we love you guys. We'll talk to you next month. Thanks for listening. Thanks for joining us, Katie. We love to have you. We'll talk to you later, guys.