Speaker 1: 0:09

Welcome and thanks for joining us on this episode of the Midweek Podcast brought to you by A Fresh Wind Church. Each week, our team brings you new content to help you take steps towards Jesus and discover more in Christ. Today's episode is hosted by Pastor Ryan.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Well, hey, welcome back to the Midweek Podcast. Pastor Ryan joined, as always, with Pastor Tim, and we are in part three of our series God Just Tell Me, and we are talking about the will of God and how we can begin to know and understand what God's will is for each of us. It's something that we all want. We want God's will. Especially if you've been following Jesus for any length of time, you want to know what is God's will for my life. We wish it was a little more obvious sometimes. That's kind of the heartbeat of this series. God just tell me. I want to know, I want to do it, just tell me.

Speaker 2: 1:06

We've covered a lot of ground over the past couple weeks, talked about the four aspects or layers of God's will. In week one, week two, we talked about how it's more about a do or more about a who than a do. God's more interested in who you're becoming more than he's interested in what you do. You know who you're becoming more than he's interested in what you do, and so, whatever you do, do it his way. And then this week we talked about some windows into the will of God and I told the church, I told you, as we were prepping for these, these past two sermons in particular, some of my absolute favorite things to preach about.

Speaker 3: 1:40

I know you were when I called you and said hey, I'll take this sermon if you need more time this week. And you're like no, but we got through them. And I know it's disheartening when we say, okay, you finally come to the point where you're all in and you're just going to say yes before you even get started. And you say yes and then the Lord says, okay, this is going to be a process of learning my will in your life. And you're like no, I finally got over the hump, Just tell me yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:13

You know, and you know getting over the hump. It's a long climb. But I tell you this though if you're serious about living for God and finding his will for your life, you'll find it Just relax. You don't need to be running in circles over this. Just say yes every day, and you'll find yourself where you're supposed to be.

Speaker 2: 2:35

Well, we've said it a few times If you'll walk in his ways, he'll lead you in his will. And so those times, even when you get off course a little bit, but you're praying, you're seeking, you know you're seeking what the Lord wants, but you took the wrong turn. He is good enough, he is gracious enough, he is sovereign enough to take those wrong steps and say hey, I appreciate you stepping out there.

Speaker 2: 3:02

I know you did that in faith. I need you to come back this way a little bit and he'll redirect those missteps to get you back on track. He's a good God, he's faithful, even when we're faithless and we get it wrong, and so that's what we've been talking about. I love it because I want people, I want our church to live on purpose. So many people go through life, but they're just existing.

Speaker 3: 3:34

Right, or pursuing the what do we call it? The American way or the American dream we call it, which is you go to work and you retire. Well and yeah, but there's no purpose in that. If that's your only purpose is to live till your retirement, Let me tell you, when you get to retirement age, you're never going to have enough money. You're going to think you have to work a little bit longer, and then your money's not going to go as far as you thought it would, and all those things come up. If that is your only purpose in life, the American dream, you're going to be bored.

Speaker 2: 4:13

You're going to be bored. Yeah, unfortunately, I think for a lot of people, life happens to them and, man, if you're a follower of Christ, you should happen to life. Life should feel like man. What the heck just happened to me? Because you showed up and I was watching some of that memorial service that they put on for Charlie Kirk and man, the gospel was proclaimed over and over and over again and I can't remember how many millions of people they said were like live streaming that thing. The arena was full that day and I don't care what you think about Charlie the man, right, here's what I know. The gospel was proclaimed over and over and millions of people heard it and I thought, I mean, there's a guy who lived on purpose, right, absolutely, he happened to life. You know, he didn't just sit back and let life happen to him, he happened to life.

Speaker 3: 5:11

And.

Speaker 2: 5:12

I think that arena holds 70,000-something people. They said every seat that wasn't roped off, someone was in it. People lined up for hours just to get into the arena and then millions of people, millions upon millions, tuned in to watch the live stream and I was like man that's who I want our church to be People who live on purpose and so that's why these past couple sermons are my favorite things to talk about. They've impacted my life.

Speaker 3: 5:41

They set you on fire. They surely did.

Speaker 2: 5:47

And I wanted to do the same thing for the people in our church that they say, man, I want to know and to walk in the will of God.

Speaker 3: 5:51

Well, you talked about windows yesterday, some ways that you can perceive the will of God as you're walking in his ways. I think it'd be good for us to walk through those things and just give some what that looks like in real life. You up for that?

Speaker 2: 6:08

Yeah, maybe a little behind the scenes here. Just yeah, to help people understand, you know, maybe, what this looks like, at least in their pastor's lives. Here's what that'd be kind of fun. So first thing we talked about is, you know, is window into God's will. If God's going to lead us and we're trying to walk in his ways, if we're going to understand, to filter God's word in his will for us, the first way to do it is the influence of others. God puts people in our life to lead and guide us in the way that we should go the right direction. Lead and guide us in the way that we should go the right direction.

Speaker 2: 6:45

Man I shared in the sermon about my youth pastor, pastor Nate, growing up and just how he was so instrumental in helping to shape me into who I am, as a pastor, as a man, as a follower of Jesus. He was someone who took me under his wing when I was, you know, a 13-year-old kid, took me everywhere and just he God used Nate to lead me along in that direction. But it wasn't just Nate. I think about my mom, who drug me to church all the time, even when I didn't want to go, and how God used her.

Speaker 2: 7:20

I think about my cousin Greg. I went to visit him. I think he was a youth pastor himself in Iowa at the time and I went to visit him and just the conversations I would have. My Aunt Sherry you know, I ended up when I graduated high school living in her basement for a little bit and the conversations that Joy and I would have with Sherry and just man. God has put those people in my life that have helped to lead and guide and shape me, and God wants to do that for each of you. Um, one of the things I said in the sermon if you don't have the right voices in your life, then you won't make the right choices, and so we need those people, those right voices, to speak truth.

Speaker 3: 8:00

You're such a poet. Thank you, I appreciate that, dominique likes that quote too.

Speaker 3: 8:07

It's important. The biggest effect I've had on my life I think we can say this just about everyone who was raised in a home with a mom and dad was my dad and my mom were my biggest influences on my life. I'm going to tell you a story that's really rough, but I had a youth pastor in my life and he was going to our church for a while and then they raised him up as the youth director and he was really good at it.

Speaker 3: 8:42

He had a big impact on my life and I can remember him teaching one sunday and he said you guys are living off what your parents believe. You guys gotta, you gotta get in the word and figure out what you believe, you gotta learn it for yourself. And uh, he said, or um, you're gonna leave the church, you're gonna, you're gonna grow up, you're gonna, uh, get busy and a bunch of different things and and you're gonna fall away because you're living off your mom and dad's spirituality, not your own. And I was like, oh, whatever you, whatever you know, I was a teenager and, sure enough, later on, several years later, when I got out of the youth department, he fell. He morally fell and screwed up his marriage, all this kind of stuff, and it was terrible and everybody got hurt. But I was still doing the thing he told me to do get in the Word and find out for yourself, you know. So years later I see him again and he had repented and came back and one of the things he told us when he preached that sermon is you'll lose it. You'll lose the stands that you've made. If you're standing on somebody else's spirituality, you'll lose the decisions you've made for your life and you'll forget.

Speaker 3: 10:17

And when I met him the second time around, he wasn't the same guy. He had ran off into sin and he didn't know the things that he taught me. It was a. It was a weird thing. Me and my I sat down with my dad and we talked about it for hours. How can that happen? How can you lose your light, what God has shown you in his word, or light what God has shown you in his word? And he said it happens all the time, son, when you're not following Jesus, satan is trying to block those things out with other things. And so that was very influential in my life. It probably shouldn't be here. It should be life situation that happened in my life, but what he told me and I agreed with him.

Speaker 3: 11:08

So I started studying all these things my dad would preach about or I'd hear about myself. Let me see that scripture. I'm skeptical. What's the foundation of this? And I began to study those things myself. I realized he was right. He stopped and look where he ended up. So that was a great influence of me and in a span of about six or seven years, I realized right away my life with Christ is on me. It's not on my dad, it's not on my church, it's not on my family or my wife, with Christ is on me. It's not on my dad, it's not on my church, it's not on my family or my wife, it's on me, and I don't want to go backwards, I want to go forward. So that's uh uh. He really influenced me in the right thing and it protected me, even when he screwed it up.

Speaker 2: 12:01

So, yeah, we, we need those people in our lives that are going to lead us and point us to truth. I love Proverbs 11, 14. This would be something that you guys, you commit to memory. It says without guidance, a people will fall, but with many counselors, there is deliverance. I think I don't know if it's our pride, if it's just the American stubbornness you know inheriting us.

Speaker 2: 12:29

But, man, we hate to seek out counsel and guidance. We got this. I'm going to forge my own way, do my own thing. I know what's best for me mentality and man, there are people who have gone before you that you don't have to pay the price that they've paid. We can learn from their mistakes. There are some people who have seen some stuff and been through some stuff. They've studied some stuff and if we would go to them and seek out their counsel, they can help us take the right steps. And it's about the closest thing you can get to a shortcut. We all want shortcuts in life. But then we won't seek out the people who are like, no, no, no, you don't want to do that. I know what I'm doing, don't tell me what to do, okay. And then here we go, walking right off a cliff. You know, take that advice from people. It's one of the things.

Speaker 2: 13:21

You know, joy and we've we've had a life group for quite a while now and I've always tried to have at least one couple in our group. That was a season ahead of where everybody else you know, because we got a pretty young group. They're mostly, you know, 20s and 30s, but I've had those people in in our group. You know pat and kathy were in our group for a long time season ahead of us. Um, right now we got bridget and larry in our group. You know pat and kathy were in our group for a long time season ahead of us. Right now we got bridget and larry in our group, season ahead of us, so that when a bunch of 20 and 30 year olds think the world has fallen apart, everything's coming to an end, they can be like y'all gonna be just fine yeah, like we've seen this before and you need that.

Speaker 3: 14:01

I remember uh, pat and I were young men I know that sounds crazy, uh pat McCorder and I Long time ago Long time ago and we were in the middle of this crisis in the church we were going to at the time and we were running around trying to hold it together and we had both just read this book and Teresa had said to me you need to go talk to some pastors. She used that verse. She said go get you a counsel. There's wisdom in a multitude of counselors. So go do it.

Speaker 3: 14:39

And Pat and I had read this book and we're like man, that was a great book and it came to me call that guy. And I'm like call an author. I mean, now you can get everything you want off the internet on them. But I was like so I got the book, I opened it up, I found out where he was, had to make a few calls, but I got him and Pat and I both got on the phone call and we said this is what's going on, we're trying. And he goes stop, churches fail every day, but the church of Jesus Christ will stand. Some churches need to fail and reorganize and you need to split those people up. He said churches fail every day and now you guys are walking on eggshells and you're not standing up for the truth. Stand up for the truth and if it survives, it survives. If it fails, it can't stand to the truth. So said you guys need to grow up. Quit trying to please everybody and massage their feelings, and just stand for the truth.

Speaker 2: 15:50

You're like, I don't like that guy's book anyways.

Speaker 3: 15:52

Yeah, but it really freed us. He just simply said church is dug in, they're going to do what they're going to do and if it fails, it's okay because the church of Jesus Christ will never fail.

Speaker 2: 16:08

What an important principle to learn. And how did God lead you to that conclusion? He used someone else.

Speaker 3: 16:16

Right.

Speaker 2: 16:16

You know the influence of somebody else and don't if you're listening today, don't underestimate the power and the influence that someone can have in your life. It's important and I talked about this in the sermon, so if you missed that, you need to go back and listen to it. It's important to have the right voices because for everything God does, enemy has a counterfeit right, and so if there's godly voices that'll lead you along into his will, that'll lead you along into his will. Satan's going to send some people to drag you away and deceive you and entice you to walk in the opposite direction, and you need to be careful of that.

Speaker 2: 16:53

If you're going out marriage is tough and you get together with your buddies and they're like, yeah, she's terrible and, man, you were so much freer before you two were together. Okay, well, you're not hanging out with those guys anymore, right, those people are trying to pull you away from God's will. We need people who are going to drag us into it. You know, even sometimes when we have to go kicking and screaming, they're going to drag us into God's will. We need those people in our life. The guy like that say stop it, stop it. I mean to tell us the hard truths right, and we need to be open to that and our pride wants to get in there and say I know no one's going to tell me what's going on or what I should be doing in this situation, but I'm telling you, the closest way to a shortcut many times is to listen to the counsel of people who have gone before you.

Speaker 3: 17:44

Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 17:46

So the next thing that we talked about. So that's influence of others. God will lead you through the influence of others. Another way that God will lead you is through life situations. I think it was on that trip to Iowa when I started thinking maybe I'd want to be a youth pastor. I'll talk a little bit about that as we talk about the next thing leading of the spirit. That idea kind of got planted in my heart then.

Speaker 2: 18:16

Then I started showing up over the next few years I just kept having all these weird kind of things happen to me, and so one of them was my youth pastor that I had Pastor Nate. He had left our church and he had taken a job down in East Liverpool Ohio and so I went down to hang out with Nate, spent the night at his place, went to church with him at his new church Never been there ever in my life. I don't know that Nate told anybody I was coming. You know I'm just just his cousin and old student. You know showing up, but I go to church, go through the whole church service. It was wild, you know. There had flags, people run around flags and blow horns and stuff. It was like man this is awesome.

Speaker 2: 19:05

But, uh, after, after church, uh, this lady she had to be six, seven, eight rows ahead of me. Um, she walks back to me and she goes hey, I don't, I don't know what's going on here, don't know why I'm supposed to tell you this, but but I'm just supposed to tell you that you are called into the ministry. But I'm just supposed to tell you that you are called into the ministry. I'm like I don't even know who you are, you don't know who I am.

Speaker 2: 19:29

But that didn't happen just once in my life. That happened at least probably three or four times. I went to a camp one time and the director for the denomination I grew up in, the state director. He came up to me at the end of one of the worship service things. He goes hey, God just wanted me to tell you he's got a call on your life and you're going to follow him in the ministry. Again, I don't know this guy. He just was up on the stage talking and preaching and he leads the whole state. He doesn't know who I am and he showed up and God started using these and it's almost a blend, I guess, of the influence of others. But I don't count it so much that way, because I didn't know these people, they didn't have access into my life.

Speaker 3: 20:14

Yeah, but it's a weight, right? If you look at a set of scales, right, and when God is teaching you his will for your life, he's never going to use just one thing, right, he's going to use them all. And, uh, you start putting these little uh weights on one side of the scale and you're like well, this person said that and then I went through, I had this situation happen to me and you keep putting it on the scale. Pretty soon you notice your left hand holding the other side down because it's just starting to crank that way and the Lord uses these little things to build that the weight on the. Yes, you know he's just no, when you say no to me, you're going to know what you're saying. No too, right, yeah, so this is uh, this is pretty, pretty important. That's a great story, as God was starting to stack the weights on that side of the scale.

Speaker 2: 21:12

Yeah, and just those life situations that that he kept putting in my path and I wasn't looking for them. You know, it was just these things that I just kept running into Boom, boom, boom. And at the time, you know now it's easy to say, well, you're a pastor and you know that's great. God called you into ministry. I was doing everything I could to not go into the ministry.

Speaker 2: 21:33

That's where I was Every pastor's testimony and I've shared from the stage. You know my dream. I was going to own a business. I was going to make millions of dollars. That's who I was going to be, and I'm like I know what pastors get paid. It ain't no millions of dollars, that's true, and so I was doing everything I could to get out of God's will. But he kept putting these life situations in. It's like what am I supposed to do with that? I got this dream, I got this goal, I got this plan, and we think God's dream and goal and plans for our lives is always going to line up with what we want. And for me it was completely incongruent. And I don't know, there's probably pastors who've got side hustles that would make millions of dollars and that's great. I'd love to figure that out too. But in the moment I'm thinking, god, you are calling me to do something and you're making it so obvious by these life situations that keep popping up, and it's not what.

Speaker 1: 22:29

I want to do.

Speaker 2: 22:30

It wasn't what I wanted to hear, but he kept making it obvious.

Speaker 3: 22:34

Well, sometimes God jumps into situations to let you know that he's tracking with you, that you're doing the right thing, but he wants to remind you I'm the one that puts you there. That's a thing that happened to me as I was going to school. For air traffic control, it's pass or fail. You add up all your points at the end and if you got enough, you get through. Well, I got to the end and I needed to score like 58 on the test to become an air traffic controller. This was the written test part.

Speaker 3: 23:11

The other tests were hands-on. You know running airplanes and stuff like that. So I was in the um. I got this thing. You know where are we going to live. You know what kind of car are we going to buy when we start getting paid. You know I had all that going on. I only needed a 58 and I knew I was probably going to ace that test. Wouldn't you know that I'm taking that test and it was one of those? You took the test and then you would take your pencil and make the color in the circle the answer. I think it was.

Speaker 2: 23:52

Scantron. Yeah, whatever Some of you have never even heard of what we're talking about.

Speaker 3: 23:57

That's right. And so I'm taking the test and one of the things was you can't go back, you can't flip back. They had a guy sitting in front of us watching us. So I get to the end of the test and I got five more questions on my little sheet. I got five more circles. I gotta choose and I'm out of test, oh no. And I was like oh, oh no, where did I get off? You know where did I? I'm two pages must got stuck, stuck together, and I'm opening and trying to look back and he says you turn that back one time, you're automatically failed. And I was like what am I gonna do? And um, so I filled in the last circles, trying to figure out what was the last things I read. And I went, I went home that day and of course I told the instructor what had happened and I you needed a 70 overall to get out and I needed 58 points to get to 70. Um, so I went home and said honey, I screwed it up.

Speaker 3: 25:08

I don't know, um, and she looked at me and said you know what? If it's God's will for us to not take this job, we'll go back in the Air Force. And uh, we'll, we'll, we'll do whatever we need to do. This has been fun out here, and not for you, because that school was rough. But she said but this is just a thing. If we don't do this, god will give us something else. And I went in the next day and I got a 70.8. Wow, and uh, I was like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 25:47

And the Lord spoke to me right in when tears started. Uh, cause I had already decided that I didn't and I must've got off on the first page, you know. So I got everything wrong. And the Lord just spoke to me and said I just want you to know, I gave you this job, you didn't give you this job and you're going to live this job for my purpose. And it was shocking, and I was first that I told Teresa that's a little rough for God to make this circumstance to make me understand that it's not you, it's me.

Speaker 3: 26:30

And I lived my whole career knowing one thing I am here because the Lord let me be here, you know, and it was. First of all, it was freeing. I knew where I was supposed to be. But sometimes, if you're where you're supposed to be and God didn't do something like that to you, you're like am I supposed to be here? So you need to watch those situations in your life so that you can get that confirmation. Yes, this is what you're supposed to be doing right now, but tomorrow may be different.

Speaker 2: 27:03

One of the things we talked about in the sermon was you know, when it comes to life situations, god will often use doors. You know open doors or closed doors. Cindy came up to me after church and said man.

Speaker 2: 27:14

I've been studying doors for years, loves doors and I was like they got a lot of them at Home Depot. You can go look at them. But when it comes to these opening these closed doors, you need to spend time in prayer. When big decisions are coming up, take the time to fast. You know what I mean. This is a major life decision. Spend some time fasting and praying about that thing. Seek out you know we're talking about godly counsel and wisdom. You need to seek that out.

Speaker 2: 27:49

Ask some people, be in God's word and be studying his word and walking in his ways. And then you start to look for open and closed doors and sometimes there's going to be a door that seems open and you're not going to know God. I've been praying God, I've asked and people have given me. You know people I trust. Some say yes, some say no and I'm just still conflicted and I've been reading your word and I'm still just not sure. I'm trying to walk in your ways.

Speaker 2: 28:27

These are those when those doors seem open. And that's what Paul said. I'm going to go over here. I'm going to do this ministry because a wide door ministry has been open and it didn't say the Lord told him to go, that some angel from heaven showed up. It was just a wide open door and so Paul walked through it. And I think when we, if you're walking in his ways in these doors open, and you say, if you can honestly say and I have prayed and sought God's direction on this, I have asked people I trust for counsel on this decision I've been in his word that when you step through that door and you step out in faith, man, you can step out confidently because, if anything God says, here's a person who stepped out in faith. They've done all the things and they stepped out in faith and God is the rewarder of people who who earnestly seek him.

Speaker 3: 29:22

And if you get it wrong again and I said this earlier god will guide you back to the right path I think that's um, I like the way you put that, because there's a situation in paul's life that was just like that. He told, told Paul, I want you to go to Jerusalem. And Paul said okay, I'm going to go to Jerusalem. So he gets on a ship, he lands, there's a whole church there. And they all said if you go to Jerusalem, you'll be put in prison. The Holy Spirit has told us that and he's like well, he called me to go and what do you do there?

Speaker 2: 30:03

God is calling me to go. Here's godly counselors saying you better not go.

Speaker 3: 30:08

Yeah, this is what's going to happen to you. So he says I still got to go. He gets on the boat and he ends up at Philip's house in Caesarea and this guy comes down from another town. He said the Holy Spirit came to me and he came up to Paul and he took Paul's belt off and he tied up his hands. If you go to Jerusalem, this is what's going to happen to you. And so now we've got the whole church, we got this guy. They were sent from God.

Speaker 3: 30:35

And you're thinking, okay, well, god is telling them not to go, obviously not to go. No, god was saying when this happens to you, I'm just letting you know. I knew it and I told you to go anyways. And so when this happens, don't struggle, Don't be upset, because when you get there you're going to be arrested, and that's what I wanted. So it's wow, man, that seems so, I know, because we think God is always going to, I don't know, unicorns and balloons, I don't know. It's just. But that's not how God works. We live in a sinful world and God is going to affect the world through you and sometimes it's going to be tough. And he told Paul hey, this isn't going to be what you think it is. It's going to be rough, and when it gets rough just remember I sent you there, I got you.

Speaker 2: 31:27

Yep, even that scripture I shared earlier, there's a wide open door. And he said many oppose me. You know it's not going to be easy, it's not always going to be the way that you thought it was going to be, even when you're in the center of God's will. We use that verse. God works all things together for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose and I think we've Americanized that word good.

Speaker 3: 31:53

Yeah, we really have.

Speaker 2: 31:55

Prosperity and I'm going to achieve all my goals and dreams and I'm never going to have problems and dreams and never gonna have problems. I'm always gonna have money. The good that god is trying to work in your life is that you look more like jesus. Absolutely that's the good, and it might be painful. What I mean? Paul, when god called him, he sent a man to and says I want you to go and show him how much he must suffer for my name. Well, how about that? For a calling to ministry? Like, hey, I'm calling you to the ministry, Come follow me and I'm going to show you how much you must suffer. Is there a plan B, God?

Speaker 3: 32:35

Because that doesn't sound great, that's when you look over and you see your left hand on the scale.

Speaker 2: 32:43

You're stacking everything you can over there, right? So yeah, it's not always easy, but you look for these open doors and you say, all right, god, I've done all the things I know to do and I'm still not clear. That's where faith steps in.

Speaker 2: 32:57

Yep and you take that step, you take that step and if the door closes, then you trust man, god's got something better, there's something better in store and he's going to lead me in his will. And so, man, when Joy and I were looking for a house I mean Tim, you know, because I drug you around a few of those, hey, I'm thinking about this one, what do you think? We had to walk through over 200 houses before we bought one. And it's like why is it so hard? And every time I was like we put multiple offers in on houses. We got all the way to closing on two houses and then, boom, doors started shutting.

Speaker 2: 33:37

You're like what is going on here, um, and I still don't know if I'm in the right house. All I know is the door stayed open and so we'll be here until the next one opens, right, but walk through those in faith and trust that if you've done it all in faith, god will get you where he needs you to go.

Speaker 3: 33:58

Well, that really leads us into probably the most difficult window, and that is the leading of the Spirit. I mean Paul comes right out and says try the spirits to see whether they have God. Hey, satan can show up as an angel of light. It's like hold on.

Speaker 2: 34:13

I'm just trying to figure out how to listen to one. Now.

Speaker 3: 34:15

You're telling me there's different things going on here, Right and when people come up to you and say things like you know, the Lord's telling me he's called you into ministry and let me, we need to squash that. You got two ministers talking about their life, so they're going to talk about ministry.

Speaker 1: 34:33

Okay.

Speaker 3: 34:34

I don't know what's going on in your life, what decisions that you're making. It might not be about ministry, so none of this necessarily means ministry.

Speaker 1: 34:45

It could be marriage, it could be a house.

Speaker 3: 34:46

It could be a job, it could be all these different things, but this is our. When you got two pastors on a podcast, this is what we're going to talk about, but we need the leading of the Holy Spirit. It's a very difficult thing, but we need the leading of the Holy Spirit. It's a very difficult thing. The first thing you need to know is the Holy Spirit will never lead you to do something opposite of what Scripture says. So if you and your wife your marriage is, you know it's really rocky and you meet this new woman and she loves Jesus and you're like well, this is the woman that God had for me and I made a mistake.

Speaker 3: 35:23

No, that is not true. That's right. And if you feel like that's true, that's a spirit that's not of God. So how you test the spirit to see whether of God is, if it lines up with the word of God, which is the foundation window, which we're going to talk about next. So that's how you try the spirits do. Is it in according to God's will?

Speaker 3: 35:47

Well, god didn't say anything about a house you know, okay, but he's said a lot about being financially sound. Right, are you going to buy a house that's going to put you underwater right away, or is your house going to be worth what you paid for it as soon as you pay for it? You know. So those who think, hey, you know I want a Corvette. If I had a Corvette, god, if I had a Corvette, you know I could go to the car shows and you know I'd have influence on people. And the Lord says are you going to?

Speaker 3: 36:17

borrow money for that Corvette that's going to depreciate as soon as you buy it and you don't have any money on the side that covers the fact that you're in the red, I don't think that Corvette's for you. The Word of God says no, oh yeah. But you know I had people say, oh yeah, you can talk to a lot of people at a car show, try the spirits and see whether they're of God. That was a horrible example, but it's what popped into my brain. Here's my situation in ministry. Okay, we were over at the shed on Baumhart and one of the guys in the church that's been here almost day one is Dave Meyer and he said I really want my kids to be in a good youth department.

Speaker 3: 37:02

Could you start a youth class, and I'll help you? Well, that meant teach a youth class, work full time, raise my kids, go to all their games and then preach on Sunday too, and it was like the straw that broke the camel's back. I just didn't know if we were going to make it through that. So I started praying for a youth minister and.

Speaker 3: 37:24

I was like Lord, I need a youth minister. I'm. I know you want to pick this guy, not me, so I'm just gonna you just bring one to me and um, and set them down in the church, just bring them to me, I don't even have time to look. Well, that prayer lasted about two days and I started calling everybody I knew and I said, lord, you are not moving fast enough on this situation.

Speaker 2: 37:51

Don't you know how important this is?

Speaker 3: 37:54

And so I'm looking for everybody. I've got no's from everything and I don't know what I'm going to do and I'm trying to figure out. How can I do these? What do I have to change? And it was not going to my kids' games, you know that type of thing. And I was like, oh Lord, I don't you know what of thing. And I was like, ah lord, I don't, you know what's this mean. I can't give up my um influence on my kids for somebody else's kids. This is my. So I'm going through all this and, uh, a guy walks in with his mom and dad and sets down and goes through a service and leaves, and, um, I didn't know who he was, from, anybody. But a guy in the church came up and said, hey, did you know that? Uh, that kid who came in here, and he was a kid then. And uh, he said he did youth ministry and I was like, I want his name, get his name.

Speaker 3: 38:55

That's what. That's what I prayed, prayed for. I prayed for god to come in and set one down and uh, and it was you, and so I called you and I said, hey, I'd really like to talk to you about this. I don't know where the lord's leading you, but we started this church. We really need a youth guide. And, uh, I'd love to talk to you about coming on. And we talked a little bit and we came from different denominational backgrounds and, and so I got in my truck after that conversation.

Speaker 3: 39:29

I was driving home and I said I don't know if it's going to work. We're going to fight all the time and he might be teaching something that I don't agree with behind my back and I had all this stuff going on. And the Lord said are you really going to do this? And you know you only get a couple audibles from the Lord in your lifetime, and you know you only get a couple audibles from the Lord in your lifetime. And he said I took a guy, had him walk in and sat down. Those were your exact words when you asked me. I sent you who I wanted you to pick and you're saying no, so I'm out of your church plant you do it on. If you're going to make your decisions on your own, then I'm out of this church completely.

Speaker 3: 40:20

This was the Holy Spirit talking to me and I'm crying and I'm weeping and and I'm like what am I? What am I going to do in? And and I'm like what am I, what am I gonna do? And uh, lord just said say yes, stupid, let's, let's go. And I did and we've had probably the greatest working career together with anybody I've I've ever met, and it's been um, it's been fantastic. And and we never. We got some things we still disagree with, but they're things that we like to disagree on. So I don't know who really disagrees or they just like getting another leg up on the other guy. But that was the Holy Spirit leading, leading me, and sometimes, when you ask the holy spirit to do something, we right away don't expect him to do it, and then, and when he did it, does it right in front of us. We're like this can't be the holy spirit.

Speaker 3: 41:24

Yeah, so, um, the leading of the holy spirit, watch what you pray, because God might be answering it just exactly how you prayed and you're so flabbergasted you don't get it. And I think these are the things, this leading of the Holy Spirit, this is where you get to see God's heart, you get to see him work. But we really don't sit down long enough. One of the first thing book I had you read was the Contemplative Pastor. You need to sit down for an hour, at least an hour or two, without a book, without a Bible, and just think and let the Holy Spirit speak to you and he will answer. Well, finally, you sat down for a minute. Now I can talk to you about what you asked about, and so the leadership of the Holy Spirit is definitely a spiritual thing. The leadership of the Holy Spirit is definitely a spiritual thing, but you need to quiet down and let him speak to you so he don't yell at you like he did me.

Speaker 2: 42:38

Man, had I known the Holy Spirit was putting that much pressure on you, I might have tried to renegotiate that $200 a month.

Speaker 3: 42:45

I don't think we had another $5 in the budget when we first started.

Speaker 2: 42:52

Yeah, man, he has been so faithful and if we'll just give him that time, that space and here's what's so important If you want to hear from the Lord in that way, the best way I can tell you to do it is you need to be walking in his ways. As you study his word and that's kind of the next one we're going to talk about here in a minute but as you study his word and walk in his ways, you become in tune with the Holy Spirit, you begin to know God's heart, and there's just some things you don't have to pray about Absolutely. Should I forgive this person? Yes, charlie Kirk's wife got out there yesterday. I forgive that man. She said I don't want his blood on my hands and I get to heaven. I can't be with Charlie because of my unforgiveness, so I forgive him.

Speaker 2: 43:50

You don't have to pray about that. No, you do it. And so when you start to do those things, you start to understand God's heart and then you begin to be in tune with it. You're like David, a man after God's own heart. And so situations in your life come up and the Holy Spirit's going to talk to you. I mean you think, was it Simeon? The Holy Spirit said you're going to see the Savior. I mean imagine being so in tune I mean he didn't do nothing, we don't handle anything else about this guy but he was so in tune with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit said hey, before you die, I'm going to show you the Savior.

Speaker 3: 44:27

So I know I told that big story, but what Ryan said just now is so important Following the leading of the Spirit is not always a voice. It's what would God want me to do in this situation? What's his heart here and when? You do God's heart, that's the leadership of the Holy Spirit. And do you do God's heart, that's the leadership of the Holy Spirit. And do you feel that? Sometimes you feel it, but a lot of times you're feeling the opposite.

Speaker 3: 45:00

But, in your brain. You know God would do it this way. And when you do it that way, no matter what you're feeling, that's the leadership of the Holy Spirit. That's how that works. I know what God would want in this situation. His Word talks about it all the time. I don't have to choose what I think he would want me to do and when I do it. That's the leadership of the Holy Spirit in my life.

Speaker 2: 45:25

I mentioned earlier, when I was in Iowa, I was there visiting my cousin Greg, who was a youth pastor, and he was still doing his job. You know, he wasn't on vacation that week, so he just took me around to all the things he was doing and I got to hang out with Greg and that's my big cousin and so I was in heaven just getting to hang out with him go to his youth ministry.

Speaker 2: 45:46

You know, they had this cool youth group hangout thing and it was like a big afterschool thing where kids would come to and play all these games in a safe environment. I got to go and be a part of that and I just jam with them. You know, we, we both played instruments and loved music and so we got to hang out playing a bunch of music and it was in that time with Greg that I felt the Holy spirit tell me this is what you're called to, you're called to serve me this way. And I was like and again I've, I've fought it for years. I fought it every time it would come up, I'd fight against it, and that's that's what we want. Is God to speak to us in that way to tell you you know, hire the man or I'm out? You know we, we want God to speak to us and he will, and he will.

Speaker 2: 46:34

But Scripture says the Holy Spirit. One of the purposes that you have the Holy Spirit is he will lead you into all truth, that he will search out and reveal to you the deep things of God. Well, what is truth? Scripture says your word is truth. And so this takes us to the very last one, the word of God. And if you remember, on Sunday you know I was trying to. I wish I had a physical window but I had to build it all on, you know, powerpoint or Canva. But at the very last slide I raised up the bottom pane of the window where it said word of God, and I put it over top of the other ones so that the influence of others, the life situations leading of the spirit, all of those things have to be filtered through the word of God. And you said this earlier the Holy Spirit will never tell you to do something contrary to his word. But I won't know that unless I'm in his word.

Speaker 3: 47:27

Exactly Now the Holy Spirit can shout at you and you'll say I don't know if this is right or not, and the Holy Spirit saying no, it's contrary to my word, go, look. Yeah, you know um, and but we don't, we don't do that, we just go ahead and say that's weird.

Speaker 3: 47:46

Everybody's everybody's got a fishing pole like this. I should have one. You know that's weird. Everybody's got a fishing pole like this. I should have one too. And so you buy the boat, or you and a boat. Let me tell you something, guys Boat is a commitment. It is a commitment. I'm looking at mine down at the marina right now and I've got to scrape it and flush all the water out and put all this and I'm just looking at it going, oh my gosh, do I have to do that again this year? And there's something always broke the rubber is always broken.

Speaker 2: 48:17

What I've determined through the leading of the spirit is I just need a friend with a boat.

Speaker 3: 48:21

Thank you for being that friend.

Speaker 3: 48:26

It's a big thing, and you never think about that when you're walking through the boat show. Are you going to have time to do this? What are you going to have to sacrifice on the weekends? Is it going to be church, your service to me? Are you going to come and worship me? Just worship on the boat? The question is, do you, though? Do you really, and so the Spirit's going to lead? And when you get a no, or you feel this twinge in your heart that maybe you shouldn't do this, you need to see if the Lord wants to speak to you through his word on that, because that's when we do. I got a joke that my wife I hope it's a joke that she played on me. Now I'm thinking, maybe that's not funny.

Speaker 3: 49:19

So we got in a big fight and we were struggling over some things and Teresa said you know, I don't know, I'm going to give up on you. And then I was reading the story of Abraham, how he's taking Isaac to the top of the mountain, and he turned to his servant and said stay here with the ass. And she said the Lord spoke to me and that's why I'm staying.

Speaker 3: 49:45

Gosh, I hope that was a joke, no, gosh, I hope that was a joke, no. So that kind of stuff happens to you sometimes, a turn of phrase. There was one when we were struggling in ministry, and it was again Teresa. She said look at this right here.

Speaker 3: 50:11

And I looked over it and it said and Jesus returned to the Lake shore and he was. He was getting in the boat to preach and what we were praying about is whether God was leading us away from a church named Lake shore. And I was like, no, this is not what that means. Means, you know, when you grow in christ and you first get saved and you're like, oh god, speak to me, and you open your bible and close your eyes and point at the verse and and um, you know, sometimes god will reward you with something like that. But that is baby games, right you know, you're just that exception.

Speaker 3: 50:49

Right, those are puzzle pieces that are really big and there's only six and you can't really mess it up.

Speaker 1: 50:56

That type of thing.

Speaker 3: 50:57

But as you grow, he's like look, you're going to have to start living out the light I've given you and you sometimes questions that you're going to have you're going to have to dig for. So that's what it looks like in a very basic, parochial way. But it's bigger than that. You know, um, forgiveness was one.

Speaker 3: 51:19

I was reading this passage of scripture um about no, I'm trying to think what Jesus was saying. He was saying no, you don't come home and the master makes you breakfast and takes care of you. No, you work real hard and then you come home and you take care of the master first. And I'm like what does this all mean? And as you track it back I think it's in matthew it tracks back to the parable. Peter said um, how many times I got to forgive this guy? And I'm like, how does? And then jesus tells the parable about the guy who owed millions of dollars and he was forgiven. And then some guy owed him, you know, 20 cents and he threw him in prison debtors prison until he was paid. King found out about it and said this not happening, I forgave you everything. I'm going to put you in prison and torture you until you pay. Well, you can't pay from prison, you know you can't earn any money there.

Speaker 3: 52:28

And prison, you can't earn any money there, and uh, and then the lord says this will, this is what the lord will do to you if you do not forgive your brother. And I was like, how do those two things go together? And basically the lord was saying I've got a standard that you've got to meet. You live for me, I don't exist for you. And so the word of God just spoke to me right then. I have to choose to forgive, even though I think I have a right not to, and because that's my job. He's the master, I'm the servant, I command you to forgive.

Speaker 3: 53:13

Well, lord, you know you got to lead me, you got to bring me to the point you got to and he goes no forgive now, I'll give you that stuff later, and that that is. Uh, we don't, we don't go home and and let the Lord feed us and take care of us.

Speaker 3: 53:27

We've still got to take care of our responsibility to the master, and it taught me a great lesson right there, in a circumstance where I was really struggling with my work environment. It was a, it was a wonderful word from God, but I had to dig for it. I was over here, you know, like three chapters beyond where he was taking me, but I had to. He made me fight for it and I and I got my answer, and so that's that's as you grow in the Lord. This is, this is what's going to happen, but when that happens to you, though it's, it's like it's going in the database, you know. So the next time something like that comes up, you don't have a question. You know's right, and you just do it.

Speaker 2: 54:13

Here's what we know. His word is alive and it is active. It is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. It never returns void, and this is why it's so important to have daily time in God's word. And you might be reading stuff now that you're like man I don't know how this is ever going to apply to my life, but you just keep reading it, you keep reading it, and then situations in your life come up and you know, you begin to know God's heart, you begin to know how he would respond in these situations, and the Holy Spirit will lead you in that direction because you have his word. You have now filtered every life situation, every influence of others, every leading of the spirit through his word and you can be confident that you are living in the will of God.

Speaker 2: 55:04

And this is why these sermons have been so important and so impactful, and I'm truly hoping and praying that you're taking these things to heart as you continue to live this stuff out. I believe God wants you to live life on purpose. Tim, I was thinking when we started coming over here. We were renting that barn over on milan avenue in amherst and had a great relationship with the owners there and, uh, we didn't even have a lease the last couple years right, he's like I ain't got time for that.

Speaker 2: 55:42

Yeah, just whatever he literally sat us down, was like listen, if I need your space, that means I'm storing product, which means I'm losing money. So we're good, right. Then COVID happened. Their sales started booming, right, um, and they're like, hey, we need that space. And he, uh, he said, guys, really, I need you out in three months. I looked at it. I was like, well, how, about six? He said, said I'll give you five. So I feel like I won that negotiation. Five's closer to six than it is three. Um, we had five months to get out and, um, we started looking, searching. You and I were going to all these buildings. We were touring any spot that had availability, rent for sale.

Speaker 3: 56:27

We were looking at and we were like, okay, God's got to do this. I remember we were looking at buildings that were $10,000 a month.

Speaker 2: 56:37

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 56:38

And so we'd say, we can do two. Right and they're like why would you even come here, yeah?

Speaker 2: 56:43

why are we having this meeting?

Speaker 3: 56:46

And we were just expecting.

Speaker 2: 56:47

God to do something. And so we're in this process of looking. Months are going by and a guy in our church, paul, was driving down 113 and past this church building and saw some guys there and he just drove right on past it and the Lord said stop and turn around. Paul's like what in the world? He told us later. He's like I've never had the Holy Spirit or God speak to me like that. But he stopped, turned around, came knocked on the door and some contractor opened the door and he started getting some information and he gives us the information, says hey, I don't know what's going on here. I was driving down that road. Spirit told me to stop and turn around, so I did. Here's a number.

Speaker 3: 57:31

You do it what you want now? Listen, this is. This is an important situation. Four years before that, we walked through our church and it was a dump. They had a river running down the middle of the same building the same building, same building, um the walls were, there was black mold there was. Well, I don't know, I don't know what black mold is, but there was there's definitely mold.

Speaker 3: 57:54

There's stuff growing there. It was. It was just they. They had quit taking care of the building. That was four years ago and paul called us and said the holy spirit told me to stop. That's never happened to me before. Here's the number do what you want, and I remember the conversation we're having. Well, that's a dump. We don't want to go there, no matter what.

Speaker 2: 58:15

Yeah you and I looked at one another like no, yeah, no, been there done that. That place is is terrible. I mean, there's the cost to try to fix it up. It ain't gonna happen.

Speaker 3: 58:25

No, through God's word, through our life experience, we know that sometimes God speaks to people and we were like, well, we're going to have to call.

Speaker 2: 58:40

He spoke to Paul, and so we did. Because God spoke to Paul, we called. He didn't tell us, nope, we had already written up. We weren't even looking at this building because we did before. Yeah, and it was bad, we don't need to look there again. God spoke to Paul and I remember you and I saying, well, I guess we're going to have to call Right. And we called reluctantly, right, just really, just to get it out of the way, was really why we called. Well, he spoke to Paul, so we'll get this call over with the move on, keep looking at some other buildings. And through that one phone call, god began to line everything up and within I think two months, we opened the doors, launched Easter Sunday. I think we actually did our soft launch Good Friday, yeah, launched Easter Sunday here in the new building.

Speaker 2: 59:28

And man, I haven't looked back. And you look back. And this is what I talked about on Sunday. Why hindsight is so important? Because you can look back and you can just begin to see how God was leading and guiding and directing all these things all along the way. We had five months to move an entire church. How do you do that? You know, and God opened the door and and the people that we're involved with here that own this building again, the greatest people that you can work with in the world.

Speaker 3: 59:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:00

These people love.

Speaker 3: 1:00:01

Jesus, they love Chris and John Callahan. Every time I said, okay, we're going to try to move a bunch of junk over there. They were always there. And Chris outworked all us guys. I mean, they were always there. And this is like, hey, we've got to do this now. And they're like, we'll be there. And they had just came to our church, they're brand new, and they're like, okay, let's go, let's go. And so many times I just left them to it. Just do what John and Chris says.

Speaker 2: 1:00:31

It's a lot better. Usually they do it their way, but man God has made.

Speaker 3: 1:00:37

Just to say one more thing about that. They had just walked in the door and said we'll do this.

Speaker 2: 1:00:44

And God has been so faithful. He sent us the right people at the right time. He gave us the right opportunities, he opened the right doors and all we were trying to do is walk in his ways and as we do that, god leads us in his will. And I think you know coming out of COVID church was hard for everybody. You know churches were down. I think we read you and I came across that one study and it was I think two thirds of pastors at one time were considering leaving the ministry.

Speaker 3: 1:01:12

Right, and one-third did, and the third man. It was rough on pastors.

Speaker 2: 1:01:19

I mean nobody was showing up, you couldn't get anybody to engage, I mean nothing seemed to be happening. And so, coming out of COVID, we were running anywhere from 80 to 110 maybe.

Speaker 3: 1:01:30

That was a good Sunday.

Speaker 2: 1:01:31

Yeah, and you look up a few years later and you've got almost 300 people here on Sundays. And I tell our church, and especially our church council and our business meetings, it's not about the numbers, but behind every number is a name and it's someone who desperately needs to discover more in Christ. And all you and I and our team have tried to do is to keep walking in his ways. And as we do that, we keep seeking his word, filtering everything through it. God, should we do this? Should we take that opportunity? Do we rent this building? Do we say yes to that, that ministry or that opportunity? And we just try to walk in his ways each and every time he's led us in his will.

Speaker 3: 1:02:14

Let me remind you how that works. In my life I've heard God tell me some things through his word, through other people. In Ryan's life, god has told him some things through other people, through his words, through life situations, and because we know that's true in our own experience. When Paul said here's the number God told me to give it to you, we called. And that's just because we already know and there's some things you already know and you might be facing a decision to make. Look back on the things you already know before you make those decisions, because if you walk in His ways, you will find His will. That's right. Let's pray.

Speaker 2: 1:03:00

Father, I thank you so much, lord. I thank you for the people you've put in our life. I thank you for the situations that you've already arranged and that you use in each of our lives. I thank you for your spirit that leads and guides us in all truth. Father, I thank you for your word. That is true, it is the foundation upon which we can build our lives and, father, I pray that you would help each and every one of us to begin to filter all these things through your word, so that we can live life on purpose. Lord, we want to know your will and so, father, I pray each and every day you'd give us the strength, the confidence, the wisdom and the discernment to know how to walk in your ways In Jesus' name, amen, amen and amen.

Speaker 1: 1:03:43

Thanks again for joining us for this episode of the Midweek Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Let us know how God is using this resource in your life, or send any podcast questions or topic ideas to podcast at afreshwindorg. If you would like to support this ministry financially and help us continue offering new resources that equip you to discover more in Christ, simply text any amount to the number 84321. We're so grateful for your support. Make sure to tune in next week for a brand new episode of the Midweek Podcast. Be blessed and have a great week.