Speaker 1: 0:16

Welcome and thanks for joining us on the Blue Chair Podcast, brought to you by a Fresh Wind Church. Each month we discuss the latest sermons from the perspective of the Blue Chairs. Hello and welcome to the Blue Chair Podcast. I am Pastor Jared and with me, as always, we've got Charles Magar Say what's up.

Speaker 2: 0:35

How is it going, everybody?

Speaker 1: 0:37

It has been a week, let me tell you we are recording this September Friday, september 12th. We are going to cover Joyful Part 2, the second half of the Joyful series. It's our summer series going through Philippians on September 12th, so it's the perfect sermon to cover in in this moment. Honestly, we are um the world's in turmoil and it's all right in front of our face. I mean, we've got Nepal. There's a lot of stuff happening there, um, there's protests and other things going on in um France and other parts of Europe. We've got September 11th. That was yesterday, 24 years since September 11th.

Speaker 1: 1:29

Charlie Kirk shot and murdered while speaking at a college in Utah. A couple school shootings this week, one literally CNN's flipping back and forth between Charlie Kirk and a school shooting. And we're going to talk about joy today. And if you listened to our podcast last month talking about the first part of joyful and what joy is and what it means to be joyful, the biggest part about joy is that it is present regardless of the circumstances. And so, setting aside Charlie Kirk's politics, right, that's the biggest thing in the news right now. Everyone's talking about it, everyone's feeling it. The man loved God and professed God everywhere, every time he was on stage that I've seen. He talked about God. You may not agree with him politically, you could be on the completely opposite side of the spectrum, but the man was still a brother in Christ, and so it's rough. It's rough. The man had two kids, a wife. How do we find joy in those moments? How do we exist?

Speaker 2: 2:50

and be happy.

Speaker 1: 2:51

Like, have that joyful feeling. It's hard, it is sometimes, but what do we do in those moments? I think, jumping right into week 10, tim preached it ready to rejoice. It says rejoice always, command to rejoice in the Lord, not circumstances. Joy anchored in Jesus' presence promises and work, and it's visible through his graciousness. And so find where in our lives we have graciousness and find where we've received God's graciousness. It is a weird thing, I don't know. I'm rambling a little bit. What are you thinking?

Speaker 2: 3:32

No, I mean even another note in one of Tim's sermons.

Speaker 2: 3:39

I mean it goes kind of with what you were saying, but it stems off of his notes on Romans 12.

Speaker 2: 3:44

But he had a comment that joy is sustained by a disciplined mind, that Paul urges us to fill our thoughts with what is true, honorable and praiseworthy, rather than letting our minds be consumed by negativity or falsehood.

Speaker 2: 3:58

And I know it's hard, like when all these things are going on, like obviously none of these are positive things right, like we're surrounded by these negative things happening in our lives. But something that you know I've been trying to train myself on and allow the spirit to help me work it out, is like not letting these negative thoughts that are presented to us on a daily basis, you know, take control of my mind, because for a long time that's that's where I used to be. I used to, you know, take control of my mind, because for a long time that's where I used to be. I used to, you know, dwell in that negativity instead of, you know, taking control of it and casting that out and realizing that, despite what negative things are in the world, you know I have to trust in God, that you know he's doing what needs to be done. We have to know that God's sovereign and he's in control of everything.

Speaker 1: 4:49

Amen. I mean, I'm looking up the verse now so I have the actual address when I mention it. 2 Corinthians 10.5 says and every proud thing that is raised up against the knowledge of God and we take every thought captive to obey Christ. We need to live in that form like, live in that mentality. And why does this matter, given the situation with Charlie Kirk and this podcast? It's not so much Charlie Kirk right. Replace that with anything right.

Speaker 1: 5:21

We're going to come here, come to church on a Sunday morning and we're sitting in the blue chairs listening to Ryan preach or Tim preach about joy and we've lost somebody we love. We're not feeling joyful. We only came to church because everyone told us we should be there, or maybe your marriage is struggling or your kids won't listen or they're getting into trouble. How do we have joy in that? We take captive our thoughts, right? So we work at putting God first, recognizing what he's given us, recognizing the grace we've received and dwelling in that grace and dwelling in the presence of the Lord and addressing the problems as they come, because what we need to remember is we are not citizens of earth. They had a whole sermon on it week nine, the week before the one ready to rejoice. Week nine. We are not citizens of earth, we are citizens of heaven. God is our president, god is our Lord. God is all the things. God is above us in every way, shape or form. He is the number one person, right? It doesn't matter what is going on around us when we are focused on God and what God is doing and how we can work for God and how we can live for God. All of those other things still hurt, but they're manageable because there's always a light. There's always somewhere we're going, always somewhere we're striving. That is good. Always someone that we can lean into when it's hard. Always somebody that we can know is in our corner fighting for us. That's one of the hardest things when we're going through this moment.

Speaker 1: 6:59

Right, when we feel these types of feelings. Where it's I'm going to church, but I'm going to leave here and me and my wife are going to break the whole way home in the car you feel alone. You feel like you're fighting by yourself. You feel like you are struggling and there's no one out looking for you. God doesn't need to look for you. He's found you. If you have proclaimed Christ as Lord and believe in your heart. God's found you. There's no searching at this point. He's with you and he's fighting for you. And he may need to correct you. He may have some things he's working out of you and that's not always fun, but thank God he is right. Thank God that he is working to improve us, to sanctify us, to bring us closer to him and to use us for his glory.

Speaker 2: 7:54

Yeah, because what is it, Ryan said I can't remember if it was Flip the Ledger or not, which I forget which one it was in but it's not us taking hold of Christ, it's Christ taking hold of us. So, like you're saying, you know to your point, that you just said is like when we confess him and we're actively seeking him, it's not us grabbing hold of him, it's him grabbing hold of us and, you know, leading us where we need to be. But even even with that, you know, while you were talking about that, it reminded me too. I think it was also in Flip the Ledger, but I'm only bringing this one up because it ties into the Press On one. But I think it was Ryan that did Flip the Ledger.

Speaker 2: 8:36

But he says Paul learns that joy is a choice, not a feeling. So we have to choose to strive for joy. And when you think of it like that and then you go to the Presson sermon, he talks about Paul placing all of his hope in one thing and that's having the righteousness of God placed on him by faith. That righteousness is imputed. By God's grace that could restore him to a right relationship with Jesus, by God's grace that could restore him to a right relationship with Jesus. And for me it's I have to like, I have to remember that sometimes, like reading this and I've been reading this, like over and over the past couple days is realizing that when I start to lose that feeling of joy, it's because my focus is off of Christ. So, and it's not even like I'm doing it on purpose, like there's just some and like I was just saying All right, we had a little technical difficulty there.

Speaker 1: 9:36

My computer decided that there was too much going on and it wasn't going to record anything, so we're going to try this again. What were you saying, though, when you lose focus on Christ?

Speaker 2: 9:44

Yeah, before we started this, how I was mentioning to you that you know I'd been talking to Erica that there's, there's so many things in the world, whether it's on social media or the news even, or whatever it may be, that is trying to draw your attention away from Christ, and I feel like it's so easy to be consumed by those things If you're not training in that, um, wanting to meditate on the word or or having that constant strive for knowing Christ and, like I just told her the other day, like I'm so close to just getting rid of everything. Oh yeah, because it's, it does it, it tries to, it tries to drown you. And I mean, obviously that's the enemy at work, right, like it's, he's trying to drown you in such negativity that it it takes all of that mental training that you've already done to follow Christ and to meditate in the word and and have all these things, and it's just trying to get rid of all of it. And then that's when I start to notice like that joy going away.

Speaker 1: 10:50

Oh yeah, I had the same situation, so I have loved politics since sixth grade. I'm the weird little sixth grader that was debating a teacher going into the presidential election.

Speaker 2: 11:06

So you're saying that you should have been like a lawyer or a politician?

Speaker 1: 11:10

I mean, basically I would yeah, I'd love to pay for either one of those. That'd be great. Instead, I fix stuff. It's great, but I've always loved politics. I've always loved politics and I went through a spat there about five years ago where I was paying for all the subscriptions for news. I was getting everything, I was looking at both sides, I was trying to get all this information, I was paying attention to what was going on and I was ranting and raving 24-7. And then my beautiful wife the head on my shoulders, I should call her was like I'm going to hit you If you don't stop talking about politics. No one cares, I don't, it's, it's. All you're doing is getting yourself upset and worked up and feeling all these things and it's kind of miserable to be around a little bit.

Speaker 2: 12:03

I definitely feel like politics is the one topic that can always guaranteed start an argument.

Speaker 1: 12:09

Oh, it's great 100%.

Speaker 1: 12:12

I mean it was hurting relationships in my family and I went from being willing to have those conversations level-headed, peaceful, just a sharing of ideas, to more of a combative stance. Admittedly I did, and it became an ideas to more of a combative stance Admittedly I did, and it became an issue. And so I ditched it all, canceled them all. Don't look at it anymore. Someone asked me not long ago they're like so what do you think about this and that? And I'm just like I've stopped watching. I know things are happening, but I'm not so wrapped into it that I can get caught up and get all angry because, realistically, there's nothing I can do to change it. I'm not going to go there. And maybe when I was 18 and I was full of hope and I could change the world, but that's not my goal anymore. I have no interest in going into politics or doing anything like that.

Speaker 1: 13:04

I'm 28. I'm a youth pastor. I fixed stuff for Chipotle. My goal is to help others discover more in Christ and, if that is where and that'll look like, wherever God takes me. But I don't need to know all the dumb things or what so-and-so may have lied about or all of this stuff to do that, and so if you're that person right, and maybe you heard Ryan's sermon or Tim's sermon I don't know who preached it, one of them Flip the ledger, whoever preached that one. If you heard that and you're like where on my ledger, do I need to address what thing was keeping me from having a relationship with God where he can use me? Right, you still have a relationship with God where he can use me. Right, you still have a relationship with God. You're still a Bible-believing Christian and all of these things, and you pray every night. You do these things, but is that keeping people from approaching you and learning about God? Is that going to be where you lose influence on somebody?

Speaker 2: 14:00

And that even goes back to previous episodes of this, when we talked about are you living a life worthy of the gospel? So, are you living a life worthy of the gospel if what you're saying in your daily walk is keeping people from coming to you wanting to know more about God?

Speaker 1: 14:19

Yeah, and it doesn't need to be. You're obsessed with politics? It could be. I think when they talk about it, are you just letting the cuss words fly, right? You could just say whatever you want, right? You're redeemed. You don't have to cuss, god forgave it already and people hear that and they're like oof.

Speaker 2: 14:39

Yeah, I just went to a kind of I mean it's on topic with what you were just saying. But I just went to a kind of I mean it's on topic with what you were just saying, but I just I just went to a I'm not gonna throw names out there. We went to an outing for a place of business and I felt like I was on like a sailor ship. I was looking around, like it was like probably every third or fourth word was, you know, a swear word being thrown out, and I was like all right, this is a place of business and this is how everyone's talking, got it. I'm like okay, I'm going to stay in my little corner over here.

Speaker 1: 15:13

You're sitting over there. Be careful, little ears what you hear.

Speaker 2: 15:16

But no, it is.

Speaker 2: 15:17

It's one of those things where it's like we have to you're going to have to help me with the verse because it's slipping my tongue right now but everything that proceeds from our mouth should be of God, right?

Speaker 2: 15:28

So when, like, we have to be careful too on how we talk and I know that's again this is kind of getting off topic, but it was just. It was funny that you mentioned that, because I just went through this, you know, a couple days ago, and it's one of those things where it's like even I have to watch what I'm saying. I'm glad that you said that, because I'm going to listen to this, like I always do, and that's going to now be stuck in my head. Even I had to work on as I, you know, started my walk because it's so easy to get wrapped up into society, norms and what you grew up in and everything else. And, you know, having that mental training and letting the Spirit work through you and, you know, slowly start purging those things from your life. So when you are speaking, you're speaking how you should be, when you're professing God to people.

Speaker 1: 16:24

Yeah, and it's important that, if you're listening and you're hearing this, be aware that this is coming from two dudes who've both spent at least five years working in a factory.

Speaker 2: 16:38

I mean, I still work there.

Speaker 1: 16:41

Your situation of. Well, I wish I could just stay out of those jokes or I wish I could just not say this, but where I work, everyone talks like that yeah, we know we are in there or have been in there, and it's not always easy. But no one said being a Christian is easy. When you're sitting there and you're trying to figure out where God is speaking to you in a sermon, this could be it. It's probably where you're like hmm, monday morning you're going to work and you hear that joke and you start giggling. And then you remember what Ryan said or Tim said the day before, like that's God putting something on your heart and that's good.

Speaker 2: 17:22

It is like it's funny now because, like thinking of where I was, you know, a handful of years ago, to where I am now. And I'll be at work now because class has started. So I'm at work, I'll take my laptop and when I have downtime I'll be sitting there doing schoolwork and I'm just listening to the other two guys talk back and forth and I'll hear something. I'll turn around and be like whoa, whoa, whoa. And he's like I'm sorry, dude, but it's like I.

Speaker 1: 17:47

I feel like I'm playing like the father figure there now where I'm like, hey, watch your mouth policing them. So another thing I really like, and I've heard it before and you've probably heard it, but the first time I realized this it blew my mind, so I'm gonna bring it up. Philippians 4 13 I could do all things through christ, who strengthens me, right? Where do we hear that? It's on every athlete's stuff.

Speaker 2: 18:09

Yeah, it's like your new typical inspirational motto.

Speaker 1: 18:15

Yeah, if you are a Christian athlete, you probably have seen that 30 times today or heard someone say that, or before every game, you talk about it. What's so important about that is verse 12. And I'm going to read it for you. It says I know both how to make it with little and I know how to make it with a lot. In any and all circumstances.

Speaker 1: 18:38

I've learned the secret of being content. Whether well fed or hungry, whether in abundance or need, I'm able to do all things through him, who strengthens me. This verse is not about winning the Super Bowl. This verse is not about winning the game, getting the starting position, getting the good stuff. This verse is about losing, not having enough, struggling through it, enduring, suffering those things. And when I heard that as a teen and it was like an awakening in me, like oh, I've thought Philippians 4. Meant I could god's gonna help me do all this and win all these games, but I've been losing them. I don't know about you guys. My high school was not known for its athletics and so we'd go out and play, talking about philippines 413 or someone's saying it, and we can do this and rah, rah, rah, and then we lose yeah and I'm like where you at, big guy, like I thought I could do all things.

Speaker 1: 19:52

The verse says I read it. I checked that it was the correct verse. I didn't read any other verses, but I checked that one. Yeah, just that one isolated verse by itself. That's what it says.

Speaker 1: 20:01

Yeah, but in reality what is being said here is that when you don't have it, when you don't have enough, god still got you. And if we can expand on that to like every stage of our life, every situation we are in, god has still got us. Whether we are in, god has still got us. Whether we are on the top or struggling, barely eating, or whether we got the worst diagnosis and we've got weeks, months to live, we still have a God who is taking care of eternity for us. We still have a God that has answered all the questions, solved all the problems, has beat death in worst case scenario. We continue to spend eternity with him. Because we're still spending eternity with God on earth.

Speaker 1: 20:57

Right, eternity just started before we. Typically, eternity doesn't start once we die. Eternity starts well before we were born. Then we came around and we got to know God and we've started spending eternity with God. At that point. It's just going to continue on, just look a little different. And so there's so much hope and joy in that verse. If we don't just focus on the positive, which I think, we cut the legs out of that verse and we miss so much of that. Like if you grew up poor, if you grew up struggling in any way, you'd hear that verse and it made you a little angry.

Speaker 2: 21:37

Why am I not rich yet?

Speaker 1: 21:39

Yeah, I could do all things. I could make a million dollars through Christ, who strengthens me.

Speaker 2: 21:43

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:43

Not necessarily. You can get through it because God's going to help you go and I don't know. I made a note for myself that I wanted to rant about that for a bit and I did, because that's always my big takeaway when I hear that verse.

Speaker 2: 22:01

And I mean even to pair with it, because I feel like it's almost, I mean it's like equally as important Tim talks about, and this is one that I feel like I see this argued the most. This topic and Tim touched on it is the idea of perfection. So and again, like TikTok, has been a curse and a blessing at the same time. But there's so many different people preaching the word in different ways on there and you come across some that are full on perfection and it gets dangerous to the point where they're telling people if they're not perfect right now, they're not saved. Where they're telling people, if they're not perfect right now, they're not saved. And then you have the other end, where it's. You have the people that are talking, you know, saved by faith, through grace, or saved by grace through faith, sorry. And then you have the other ones that are you know, I don't know some people refer to them as hyper-grace where it's like there's nothing else and it's hard to explain and I'm not going to get into that because some people might agree or disagree. But you see Paul talking about the fact that it's not about whether or not you're perfect or reaching the end of sanctification, it's getting to know Christ and understanding what Christ did for you, because there's nothing you can do in your walk that's going to add to what he did on the cross, amen.

Speaker 2: 23:30

And I feel like when I see a lot of these videos, people are losing track of the fact that that's what we should be focused on and you see so many of these arguments going on that it's leading people away. But I take joy in seeing people come to realize that it is what Christ did for us on the cross. But in knowing that as well, tim mentions that hearing grace and everything. Like people see it as I'm a toddler, and it's not that we're toddlers, we're in training. So even with his victory for us on the cross, like we are in training to be leaders in the next life, like we, this, this is our time.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Now we're in training and you even see it in Titus 2, 11 through 12, I think, when it says the grace of God came to teach us to deny ungodliness. So grace wasn't just here as like a forgiveness or like it's teaching us. The Spirit is teaching us every day to deny these things and this is the training that we're in. So I even take joy in that. I take joy in knowing that, even though I'm not perfect, like the Spirit's here teaching me every day, getting me closer and closer to the image of Christ, and I take joy in that. I take joy in the fact that I know I'm not perfect, but I take joy in knowing that I am being taught every day and I am in training.

Speaker 1: 24:55

Oh yeah, now, with that whole grace versus works argument because that's kind of where we're at there is a call by Jesus for us to be perfect right, but there's an understanding that we're never going to be there. And so there's this, one of my favorite words of all time. I think I had a sermon where I said it like 64 times a dichotomy Two opposing views that somehow work together right. Or two opposing things that somehow work together right, um, or two opposing things that somehow work together. Jesus is calling us to be perfect, and scripture says over and over that we can, we are, we have broken our chains, we are free from sin, we can choose not to sin. We could do all of this, but there's a whole lot of grace for you, because you're not going to do it right. And so what we understand as Christians is that we have this brokenness in us still, because we are perfect, imperfect people, that we're going to sin, we're going to fall short. Everyone does, everyone is going to continue until the day we die. However, by leaning into Christ, we could do it a whole lot less. And then, because we are saved and because we know Christ, it changes our desires and our values when we lean it and now when we walk with Christ. Right, it may not be the perfect metaphor, a perfect example. It kind of makes me think of like a new hire right, you get hired in, you start working the job. You're going to make mistakes, you're going to do something wrong, you're not going to put the right person in the email, you're not going to like whatever it may be right. That's kind of like as a new Christian. But then the more you walk with Christ, the more that expectation comes that you're going to do it correctly. But even when you've worked somewhere for 10 years oops, I made a mistake, it's going to happen. But one of my favorite things the pastor ever said and I think I was the one who said it we don't do works to be saved. We do works because we've been saved 100%. Does that take away the need for works Because there's grace? No, does works. Take away the need for grace. There's grace. No, does works. Take away the need for grace? No, I mean, where was it? I know it was in here. It's Philippians 3.4, it starts or 3.

Speaker 1: 27:23

For we are circumcision. If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more. Verse five Circumcised the eighth day, the nation of Israel, the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews. Regarding the law, a Pharisee. Regarding zeal, persecuting the church. Regarding the righteousness that is in the law, blameless. But everything that was a gain to me, I've considered to be a loss because of Christ. It doesn't matter what all things we hit when we compare everything we can do, all of our perfection, all of our good deeds, all of our tithes, all of our everything, and we hold it up to Christ it's nothing.

Speaker 1: 28:08

It is laughable. Now, just because it's laughable, it doesn't mean stop doing it. It's like when more metaphors for the day you see someone who's trying to lose weight for the first time go to the gym and they're working out next to someone who's been going to the gym for 20 years. That person's ripped and running 10 miles and running marathons and doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And then they see the guy who's struggling to get through a mile aka me. They see him.

Speaker 1: 28:39

Right, the guy who's doing it is like he's doing great stuff, he's doing awesome, he's perfect quote, unquote when it comes to that. But then you got the guy who's just barely doing it, barely getting by, fitting it in when he can. Does that mean what he's doing is not worthy or good, or should he stop? No, it means keep on going, because one day we are going to be sanctified and we're going to be the guy running 20 miles and it's going to be awesome. We're going to be perfect and we're going to be sanctified and we're going to be the guy running 20 miles and it's going to be awesome. We're going to be perfect and we're going to live in heaven and we're going to be the rulers because we are in training. We're not there yet, but we have to start doing it now, and so there's a it's, it's a, it's a balance it is.

Speaker 2: 29:22

But even with saying that it's a balance, I want to agree with how you phrased it because, despite the fact that it's a balance, those works have nothing to do with your salvation, because they can never compare to what Christ did for you on the cross. Oh yeah, and when I bring it up, I only bring it up because, for me, as someone who has lived the way that I've lived, I see where I was broken, I see where I failed and I take joy in knowing that God doesn't leave me there.

Speaker 2: 29:56

Oh yeah, he's training me and bringing me out of that darkness.

Speaker 1: 30:01

Oh, I agree 100%. To see when you have the chance to see where God has pulled you out of. That is such a good point, like good moment. That is such a it's exciting. It's words aren't working today. It is encouraging to see that and there is like a sense of like. I love that. I can see that.

Speaker 2: 30:25

But to love that.

Speaker 1: 30:25

I can see what God has done for me. I have to have made those mistakes too, and so that's also like this weird thing situation it's humanity, it's feelings. Feelings don't always make sense. I love that. That's really good.

Speaker 2: 30:39

And with that being said too I know I mentioned it to you before we started but even in comparison to what happened with me and me getting pulled out of that darkness and everything and not saying any of these people were in darkness, but in the midst of all of this stuff happening in the world right now, especially over this past week, and to see these videos of hundreds and hundreds of people being baptized and coming to Christ, so good.

Speaker 2: 31:05

As hurtful and as sad as these events are that are taking place, you can see the sovereignty of God and you can see his hand moving. That's bringing all these people closer to Christ and it really does like it touches your heart to see the amount of people lately that have been coming forward, and I take joy in that even too. I mean that's hundreds and hundreds of you know souls that have come to christ, so I love it, and I love to see people choose joy in this situation.

Speaker 1: 31:38

Um and again, we're not I want to reiterate, we're not aligning ourselves with any of his politics or anything like that. All we're saying is that, from a Christian standpoint, he was a brother in Christ, charlie Kirk, and there are people that we disagree with politically or agree with politically on both sides of the aisle, no matter where you stand, that are brothers in Christ. And so that brings us to Tim's point. In Ready to Rejoice, that we need to pursue unity. When we are seeking joy, when we are trying to be joyful, we need to pursue unity and we need to love the people that we disagree with. We need to love the people that are hurting us. I heard a pastor talk about this week and I've been chewing on it like it is bubble gum. I heard a pastor talk about this week and I've been chewing on it like it is bubble gum. As a Christian, the measuring stick is not whether or not we love Christ, the measuring stick is whether or not we love Judas.

Speaker 2: 32:40

Yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 1: 32:40

And replace Judas with whoever you want to the person you dislike the most. The great commandment love your God with all your heart. Love your neighbor as yourself. He put those real close together. Yes, loving Jesus is first, it's the most important thing, no debate. But if we don't love Judas, if we don't love the annoying boss, if we don't love the person on the other side of the aisle, if we don't love the person who is opposite of us in everything we believe, we've missed the second most important thing God has called us to do, and so pursue unity.

Speaker 1: 33:30

Don't be like I can't think of the address. If at all possible, be at peace with everybody. Right, Like we can stand up and we can throw a fit and we can be all upset about a million things and this week's an example. But what are we doing with that? Are we creating division? Are we stopping the ability for lost people to be saved Because we don't work, we don't move, we don't act based on what we're feeling? We need to take captive every thought, every thought, feeling, all of that. We need to control that and do what Christ is calling us to do in every moment of our life.

Speaker 2: 34:15

And I think, with all the events across the world that are going on, it's remembering how we should be reacting to them, like you were just saying, and I feel like the moment you let your emotions and anger take over. It's obviously that. I mean, that's one of the biggest causes of division and you know, I see it everywhere right now and I'm only, you know, 33, and just in the past 10 years, the, the amount of division has gotten so high and the fact that even in just normal conversations, it's like people have lost the capability of having a healthy discussion or a healthy debate and being able to shake hands and still love each other afterwards. I don't have to agree with every viewpoint that you have in politics or every viewpoint that you have in how restaurants should be built.

Speaker 1: 35:08

We don't have to agree on everything when it comes to scripture.

Speaker 2: 35:11

Yeah, I mean obviously the important.

Speaker 1: 35:14

Major on the majors, minor on the minors. That's in there.

Speaker 2: 35:16

Yeah, do you agree? Christ is Lord? Cool, I love you.

Speaker 1: 35:19

But the thing is we can work through a lot of the other stuff.

Speaker 2: 35:22

But the thing is, I feel people in society have lost the capability of being able to part ways lovingly at the end of a debate or conversation. There's so much hate that's going on right now. That's one thing that breaks my heart when you watch. It is just the fact that you can't just agree to disagree on some things and still shake hands. And that's the one thing that I'm stressing the most with my kids right now going through school is you don't have to agree. They don't let someone change your mind on something you stand firm in just because they believe it. But at the end of the day, you don't hate that person, you don't retaliate against that person. You still show respect and love that person, whether don't, you know, retaliate against that person Like, you still show respect and love that person, whether you agree or not.

Speaker 1: 36:09

And one of the sorry finish.

Speaker 2: 36:11

No, you're it's just because of everything that's going on in the schools with this. You know the shootings that you're talking about and everything. A lot of that stems from the fact that people can't be kind anymore. And I told him I was like that terrifies me for my kids going to school.

Speaker 1: 36:24

Oh yes, oh yes, that is I don't it drives. It's a constant fear. It really is. But one of the best things that was ever taught was in one of those moments where I was kind of hyper fixated on a disagreement. So Allison grew up in a church that has differing views on a couple things than I grew up believing, and I've debated her father left and right, going back and forth talking about these things, and one time I was talking to the pastor of the church. We went and got coffee Super great guy, pastor Josh Smith over at Grove Point. Love the guy Still texting from time to time Like I and got coffee Super great guy. Pastor Josh Smith over at Grove Point Love the guy Still texting from time to time Like I talked to him. He married us. He's a great guy. We disagree on a couple things and we're talking about it and he says I'm 18. So if you know me at 18, I didn't stop talking.

Speaker 2: 37:21

I wish I knew you at 18.

Speaker 1: 37:22

No, you don't. You were at 18?. No, you don't. I didn't stop talking. I talked a whole lot. I had my points lined out, I was ready to debate 24, seven. Let's do this, let's, let's discuss it.

Speaker 1: 37:31

And he said Jared, I want to challenge you, stop talking. Dell used to say that to me too, my stepdad, but he used to say it a little different. He said stop talking, just listen for a bit. He said stop talking, just listen for a bit. Spend a month, spend a year, just listen to different beliefs, different ways people read Scripture, and we're specifically talking about Scripture Verses that you hear preached on all the time. He's like just listen to them, just talk about it and lean into God and talk to you about it. To teach you something, to reveal something to him. Just talk about it and lean into God and talk to you about it. To teach you something, to reveal something to you. He said because we worship the same God, we have the same Holy Spirit in us, and if we disagree on something, cool, that's fine, but we still need to be focused on the Holy Spirit and what he's calling us to do at something Now, and it was life-changing that advice. And so, as Christians.

Speaker 1: 38:34

Like we come to church and we hear Ryan say something. Maybe like, maybe you're visiting the church for whatever right you come to the church for the first time and you're agreeing with Ryan, with a whole bunch of stuff, and you've gone to church your whole life then he says something you're like I've heard that different. I don't know if I agree with him. That's not a reason to leave the church. Yeah, there's going to be some things that Ryan talks about.

Speaker 1: 38:57

If you've spent time studying the bible that you may not fully agree with or it may not have worded it the same way if you've, if you've spent time studying scripture under anybody you go hear someone talk. You're not going to agree with every single thing they say fully. Me, ryan and Tim are all from different backgrounds. We major on the major, minor on the minor. There are some smaller things that God will answer for us and we'll look at each other and be like ha, I was right, but why are we going to allow that to cause division? Why are we going to allow that to be a reason that we don't go to a church? That's, in every other respect, great. I've heard stories of churches breaking up because they didn't like the color of the carpet come on, I mean even outside of like.

Speaker 2: 39:55

let's say you're disagreeing on something theology or interpretation, whatever the case may be. Sometimes I feel like it's even on an emotional level. So let's use the same scenario Ryan's preaching and you're agreeing, agreeing, agreeing. And then he says something, and it's not that you disagree on the way it's interpreted or whatever, but it's because in that moment the Holy Spirit's poked you.

Speaker 1: 40:24

You're talking about a little bit of conviction here.

Speaker 2: 40:26

It's something that's resonating with you and instead of just how you were saying, like the guy told you, just stop talking. Sometimes it is the slow to you, just stop talking. Sometimes it is the slow to speak quick, to listen, sit there and resonate on that for a minute, because chances are that is a conviction and it's something that you need to take away with you and really think about it and instead of speaking back instantly with anger or emotion in general, there's probably a reason you feel that way and you should probably think about it for a little bit before you say anything. Oh yeah, because that's an easy way to end up leaving a church is because you feel offended, like oh, he said this, that's something that I'm doing and I don't agree with that.

Speaker 2: 41:05

I think that's fine and it's like sometimes. Maybe it's not fine, maybe you do need to go home and think about it. Maybe that's something you need to give up or something that you need to do differently in your life and the Spirit's speaking to you and you just don't feel comfortable in the moment. Well, it's not always comfortable.

Speaker 1: 41:21

Being a Christian isn't always easy. I mean, you see in Scripture where Paul is guiding Christians and telling them what to do in different situations if they should circumcise Gentiles and things like that. There's a lot of things here in Scripture where Christians disagree on a subject and then there's a decision made and they just kind of have to live with it. And we even have it better Ryan thinking slightly different, or Tim wording something different than how we would, or leaning more towards one thing than the other. It's very rarely is that. Should that be a massive sticking point? There is so much benefit in having the majors all together. Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1: 42:15

I'm not saying we have someone on stage who's preaching blasphemy absolutely not, yeah we're talking about the situations and where there was already like recorded debate on it, right, like if it's, if this person's walking up there and just saying something wild, that just way out of left field, all right, let's address that. You know what I mean. But if it is something where it's like a big one speaking in tongues, always debate it right. It's not that important most times. It's not something that just because someone sees something differently, and so we, as Christians, need to pursue unity together.

Speaker 1: 42:59

Right, and that needs to be first and foremost. We need to have fellowship between Christians. Scripture talks about it over and over, why it's so important. And then, as we go out and spread the gospel, we're going to hear things and hear people and see people act in ways that are antithetical to our beliefs, and we have to choose to love them. We have to choose to show them love and give them grace. Have to choose to show them love and give them grace Because, frankly, if you don't believe that Jesus is Lord, there is no reason that you should submit yourself to the scripture. Let me say it again, so it's clear If you don't believe in Jesus, there's no reason that they're going to fall under the law.

Speaker 2: 43:50

Right and Paul says it right. I wrote this note. Paul says guard your joy by clinging to the gospel.

Speaker 1: 43:57

So I mean that right there, and so our job is we need to, we need to cling to the gospel and those people who aren't under the law, who aren't living how they should, we need to share the gospel with them. But if we go to talk to somebody who is different than us and we're just ew, I don't want to talk to that person. Did you hear them talk about what they're talking about, or did you hear the words they said? They cussed.

Speaker 2: 44:27

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:28

All right, sure, don't bring your little kids around it. Have some separation there, right. Use wisdom, use discernment. Don't put your kids in situations where. Have some separation there, right. Use wisdom, use discernment. Don't put your kids in situations where they're going to learn bad habits or something. Or don't put yourself in situations where you're going to fall short. Right, like, maybe you struggle in an area, maybe that's not your ministry point. Right, if you are struggling with alcoholism, don't go preach the gospel at a bar. Yeah, but there's still people that need to hear the gospel, that are living different than you, and those people are going to live different than you, and our only hope, their only hope, is to hear the gospel. If they don't, because they're weird or they're different, or they have different proclivities, or they say different things, or I mean you can just the list goes on If they don't hear the gospel, they have no hope.

Speaker 2: 45:22

When I feel like there's so many, there's so many introductory ways that you can get into those conversations in those situations without falling prey to the situation around you, right? So, for instance, the outing that I went to a bunch of foul language, right, but being able to pick out the people who aren't. And then it draws that curiosity right, like people are going to see a difference in character or a difference in you know how you're, um, how you're coming across in a crowd of people who are acting that way. And there there was probably three or four conversations that I had that. Who knows why it was prompted. It could be from the fact that I was acting differently than other people, it could be you know countless things.

Speaker 2: 46:12

But in those situations the opportunity arises where we can confess our faith and try to at least plant a seed that can draw people in. You know, it was something as simple as he asked you know, do you have any schooling? And I told him I'm going to school right now. And then the conversation comes up like what are you going to school for? And I tell him, and then that sparks another interest of what makes you going to school for. And then I tell them, and then that sparks another interest of well, what makes you want to go for that? So it's like in those moments, despite what's going on around you, like how you approach people, how you talk to them and spark conversations, the deeper you go, the more you can start drawing people in and it's. It's all about the self-control too. You know, anyone can go in there and just start spewing out the same words that they are, but it's it's being able to hone in on that self-control and listen to the spirit and refrain from that kind of stuff it's important.

Speaker 1: 47:06

I mean we all want to. Everybody wants to get along with people and have a good time and not feel like the outcast again. That's worldly. We need to. We need to be willing to be a little bit of the outcast.

Speaker 1: 47:21

But when we're talking about this subject and um reaching people who are lost and pursuing unity with them, um, and when I it's important that we clarify pursuing unity doesn't mean um affirm what they're doing. We're not saying, oh yeah, that's great, go ahead and do that, that's awesome. But you know what? I hear a lot and we hear it so much, and it's the biggest lie that Satan tells people. But I think there also has to be truth in it. Right is that Christians are just going to be mean towards them because they disagree? Are all Christians always nice? Has to be truth in it. Right Is that Christians are just going to be mean towards them because they disagree? Are all Christians always nice? No, we're broken. We're people. We fall short and we need to fix that period. There's no. Show love, pursue unity if at all possible, be at peace with everybody.

Speaker 1: 48:11

But what I think the world needs to see more of is christians who are loving and kind and like they're friends with yeah, just the normal people they come into contact with, like, have you ever had that situation where your buddies with somebody, or you are getting along with them and then all, for whatever reason, they find out you're a christian and they're like taken aback? Yeah, that's one of my favorite things in the world. Not because I've like hid that I was a christian. They just made some assumptions on about me because they're like, oh, this guy's just a normal guy. He's not yelling at me or telling me I should do something different Because, again, like, share the gospel with them. But if someone doesn't know Christ, let's not just sit here and hound on them about how they need to stop doing what they're doing.

Speaker 2: 49:02

Right.

Speaker 1: 49:03

Let them learn. Let Christ do that part. He'll convict them. He'll do all that, but they need to come to know Christ. We need to share the gospel with them. And so, in my position, I see I have 25 restaurants I take care of. And so, in my position, I have 25 restaurants I take care of. Each restaurant has like 30 employees.

Speaker 1: 49:16

I see people all the time that have a million different walks of life and I've had that where they're like you're a pastor, I'm like, yeah, they're like I didn't know that Like you seem normal. A lot of us are, believe it or not, christians, we're just people. We're just people. Yep, believe it or not Christians, we're just people. Yeah, we're just people. Yeah, and that opens it up to it, makes them see that, look, just because someone's a Christian doesn't mean they're just going to yell at us or bash us or be mean to us or not talk to us because we're different.

Speaker 1: 49:48

There's a big part of loneliness in that right. Why do these groups of people that aren't Christian, that are living antithetical to what God has called people to live by? That's why they group together and stay in their little huddle, because they're only going to get the affirmation and the yeas and the. You're doing great, keep doing. You live your life your way. But when they find somebody who is just like I'm like, it is what it is, like I don't know, like do you want me to tell you everything you're doing wrong? I could, but is it going to be beneficial? But when they then then when he, someone who is a Christian kind of, invades their, their huddle and they're friends with them, and then they find out and they're like wait a minute.

Speaker 1: 50:36

you've bamboozled me. You're not what the world told me you are. It opens up the opportunity for them to see Christians in a different light, and that's the point I was getting at.

Speaker 2: 50:47

That was a long walk for a short drink of water. No, I get it because it's like you know, we've had this conversation before. But the thing is is that and you touched on it but some of the most dangerous lies from our enemy is embedded in some form of truth. And you saying that, like you know, we've had the conversation of you know the comments that you know there's no love like Christian hate or something.

Speaker 2: 51:08

I don't remember how it goes exactly, but you hear this stuff all the time and that's what leads people away from the church and it's the enemy's lie that's embedded in that partial truth, because there are Christians that act that way, but that doesn't mean we all act that way and that doesn't mean that all Christians shouldn't strive to be better than that. You know that idea of Christians. We shouldn't be reflecting that kind of light, and I don't claim to be one of them. I don't want to be a part of the problem that's pushing people away from the church. So I get exactly where you're going with it, because there are some very dangerous lies that are embedded in partial truth.

Speaker 1: 51:48

Oh yeah and so, ooh, we've gone over a wee bit. You got a long one today. You're welcome, guys. You got to hear our beautiful voices for an extra 5, 10 minutes, and so we're going to wrap up now. But all of this to say joy is so important and we didn't even touch on contentment. Oh, my goodness, we're going to go a little longer, guys. You ready for this?

Speaker 2: 52:12

Let's buckle in this whole, the whole sermon series has been long, dude.

Speaker 1: 52:15

We could talk about this for hours. All of this leads into. God has given us or stems from. God has given us so much, and our job isn't to worry about what's going on in the world. Our job is to share the gospel and create disciples. Help others discover more in Christ. That's our church's mission is to help others discover purpose. Ryan's going to kill me. It's our purpose and he messed up too. So he did. He did. Our purpose is to help others discover more in Christ. The Great Commission is that we are to make disciples of all nations I'm paraphrasing, obviously, of all nations. I'm paraphrasing obviously. And so that's all we should be focused on is to fulfilling that commission, and when we're doing that, we're focused on God. The joy will come. We need to focus on that Pray constantly, walk in the Spirit, practice spiritual disciplines, do all of those things and, whatever happens, we're going to have joy through it.

Speaker 2: 53:15

And my last comment to tag onto that is just summarizing all of this is guard your joy, clinging to the gospel and getting to know Christ, amen.

Speaker 1: 53:24

All right, guys, you have a great month, week, year, all of it. Have a great time. We love you. Talk to you next time. Bye, Thank you.